>> Here is a true story on me training RTLS's as NASA. I hope you like it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> D.
>>> Here is a true story on me training RTLS's as NASA. I hope you like it.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>He raised some important issues.
Assuming he's telling the truth - an assumption I do not make.
>I enjoyed reading his account of what happened.
Assuming it's an account - and not fictional.
>Seems to me to be more a case of sour grapes on your part because you
>don't like having the newsgroup spotlight directed away from your OT
>submarine stories to something space-shuttle-related.
No, it's a case of being tired of Danny's stories of how poorly he was
treated was by NASA, how he is utterly without sin or error, and all
his problems are the fault of a complex conspiracy by NASA managment.
D.

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Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Herb Schaltegger - 15 May 2007 19:27 GMT
> No, it's a case of being tired of Danny's stories of how poorly he was
> treated was by NASA, how he is utterly without sin or error, and all
> his problems are the fault of a complex conspiracy by NASA managment.
>
> D.
To be fair, D., I don't think that's what he's ever said - only that the
internal NASA culture is much like any other and that it tends to gang up on
those considered difficult or trouble-makers. All of which is quite probably
true.
Now, be that as it may, I would very much like to hear Jorge's take on this.

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Fear is the path to the dark side...
Fear leads to anger...
Anger leads to hate...
Hate leads to banjos...
Banjos lead to suffering!
Danny Deger - 15 May 2007 20:11 GMT
>> No, it's a case of being tired of Danny's stories of how poorly he was
>> treated was by NASA, how he is utterly without sin or error, and all
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> probably
> true.
And yes I was a trouble maker for NASA management. NASA management didn't
like statements like "Do you know what a room full of NASA managers is? --
It is a bunch of people in a room lying to each other" This is only a
example of statements I routinely made on how poorly I thought NASA was run
at the time.
I do think there is hope though. The current adminstrator is a straight
shooter as is the JCS director and his staff. I am still in contact with a
high level JSC manager and I have been told NASA is looking long and hard at
its actions that might have caused emotional and mental stress in the recent
shooting. It is my opinion that past JSC directors would have made every
effort to hide any actions that might have agrevated the shooter. Another
good sign is NASA allowed decenting opinion on the shuttle return to flight
to be published. Not too long ago the decenting opinion was strongly
quashed.
Danny Deger
Danny Deger - 15 May 2007 19:52 GMT
snip
> No, it's a case of being tired of Danny's stories of how poorly he was
> treated was by NASA, how he is utterly without sin or error, and all
> his problems are the fault of a complex conspiracy by NASA managment.
In my story I was not mistreated and didn't say I was mistreated. I simply
was surprised that NASA was OK with a flight rule that "everyone" knew we
didn't train to. Up to that point, I was told the flight rules were sacred.
There was no complex conspiracy by NASA management, and I never said there
was. Please do not put words in my mouth. My problem at NASA was a simple
case of work place bullying. Anyone at NASA can tell you about NASA
managers throwing coke cans, throwing trash cans, screaming out of control
using the "f" word, etc. Bullies do not need a conspiracy to operate in.
They just need an environment that tolerates their actions, and NASA
provides this environment for them. It is my belief that work place
bullying is the culture problem discussed in NASA's two accident
investigation. It other words, as NASA engineers fear being bullied in the
future, they sit quietly when they have a safety concern that is not
supported by NASA management. Read the two accident reports and it is clear
there is something going on at NASA that is not healthy.
On doubting my truthfulness and accuracy here is a copy of the rule I was
attempting to train: I got it from
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr
_2002/janqtr/pdf/14cfr91.126.pdf
Now, are you going to claim I hacked into a data base and inserted this rule
that I made up so I could write a story about it? Maybe you think I am part
of a conspiracy to attack NASA.
A8-13 RTLS ET SEPARATION
FOR RTLS ET SEPARATION, CREW ACTION SHALL BE AS FOLLOWS:
A. DURING MATED COAST, COMMAND A FAST SEPARATION IF ALPHA
? -4 ± 2 DEGREES AND DIVERGING OR BETA ? 0 ± 2 DEGREES
AND DIVERGING.
During RTLS mated coast, MM 601, G/C steer is commanding attitude hold in
all axes in either CSS
(while the RHC is in detent) or auto flight control mode. Due to the time
limitations of performing RTLS
ET separation, a fast separation should be commanded anytime the vehicle
attitude is diverging from the
RTLS ET separation structural release constraints. All of the RTLS ET
separation design staging
conditions are documented in JSC-07700, volume X, figure 3.2.1.1.10.4.
Danny Deger
Danny Deger - 15 May 2007 19:58 GMT
snip
> On doubting my truthfulness and accuracy here is a copy of the rule I was
> attempting to train: I got it from
> http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr
_2002/janqtr/pdf/14cfr91.126.pdf
This is the wrong link. It is to a Federal Aviation Reg I was looking into.
Here is the link to the flight rules. Sorry for any confusion this might
have caused.
www.jsc.nasa.gov/news/columbia/fr_generic.pdf
Bill Baker - 16 May 2007 05:45 GMT
>> He raised some important issues.
>
> Assuming he's telling the truth - an assumption I do not make.
Derek, I have read from respected sources here (and elsewhere) that
NASA has had on the books RTLS flight rules that it knew were not
actually survivable since early in the shuttle program. I think you're
the one that's out of line here, frankly.
Greg D. Moore (Strider) - 18 May 2007 10:35 GMT
>>>> Here is a true story on me training RTLS's as NASA. I hope you like
>>>> it.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Assuming he's telling the truth - an assumption I do not make.
Fai enough. Though I think you're wrong here.
>>I enjoyed reading his account of what happened.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> treated was by NASA, how he is utterly without sin or error, and all
> his problems are the fault of a complex conspiracy by NASA managment.
Again, you're read on this, not others.
However, I find it ironic that you lambast others who seem to put blind
faith in NASA and yet when presented with a case that is most likely,
despite your doubts, a perfect example of NASA ignoring its own rules, etc.
you want to shoot the messenger.
Quite frankly, I thought better of you.
> D.

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Greg Moore
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Jeff Findley - 18 May 2007 22:01 GMT
>>>Seems to me to be more a case of sour grapes on your part because you
>>>don't like having the newsgroup spotlight directed away from your OT
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Quite frankly, I thought better of you.
I agree! Come on Derek, stop thinking for yourself! All the world is black
or white. There is no gray area in-between. ;-)
Seriously, considering Danny's history, you have to take any story he writes
with a huge block of salt. On top of being a seriously disgruntled former
NASA employee, his has an admitted history of mental illness during the time
he was employed at NASA. His is hardly an unbiased opinion when it comes to
NASA.
Jeff

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