Chinese test Anti-Satellite weapon
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David E. Powell - 18 Jan 2007 16:30 GMT Thought folks might want to know about this one.
<http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1188>
Chinese Test Anti-Satellite Weapon By Craig Covault, Aviation Week & Space Technology, Cape Canaveral Wednesday, January 17, 2007
Courtesy of Aviation Week & Space Technology and Aviationnow.com
U. S. intelligence agencies believe China performed a successful anti-satellite (asat) weapons test at more than 500 mi. altitude Jan. 11 destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target with a kinetic kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile.
The Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency, NASA and other government organizations have a full court press underway to obtain data on the alleged test, Aviation Week & Space Technology reports on its web site Aviationnow.com.
If the test is verified it will signify a major new Chinese military capability.
Neither the Office of the U. S. Secretary of Defense nor Air Force Space Command would comment on the attack, which followed by several months the alleged illumination of a U. S. military spacecraft by a Chinese ground based laser.
China's growing military space capability is one major reason the Bush Administration last year formed the nation's first new National Space Policy in ten years, Aviation Week will report in its Jan. 22 issue.
"The policy is designed to ensure that our space capabilities are protected in a time of increasing challenges and threats," says Robert G. Joseph, Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security at the U. S. State Dept.
"This is imperative because space capabilities are vital to our national security and to our economic well being," Joseph said in an address on the new space policy at the National Press Club in Washington D. C.
Details emerging from space sources indicate that the Chinese Feng Yun 1C (FY-1C) polar orbit weather satellite launched in 1999 was attacked by an asat system launched from or near the Xichang Space Center.
The attack is believed to have occurred as the weather satellite flew at 530 mi. altitude 4 deg. west of Xichang located in Sichuan province. Xichang is a major Chinese space launch center.
Although intelligence agencies must complete confirmation of the test, the attack is believed to have occurred at about 5:28 p.m. EST Jan. 11. U. S. intelligence agencies had been expecting some sort of test that day, sources said.
U. S. Air Force Defense Support Program missile warning satellites in geosynchronous orbit would have detected the Xichang launch of the asat kill vehicle and U. S. Air Force Space Command monitored the FY-1C orbit both before and after the exercise.
The test, if it occurred as envisioned by intelligence source, could also have left considerable space debris in an orbit used by many different satellites.
USAF radar reports on the Chinese FY-1C spacecraft have been posted once or twice daily for years, but those reports jumped to about 4 times per day just before the alleged test.
The USAF radar reports then ceased Jan. 11, but then appeared for a day showing "signs of orbital distress". The reports were then halted again. The Air Force radars may well be busy cataloging many pieces of debris, sources said.
Although more of a "policy weapon" at this time, the test shows that the Chinese military can threaten the imaging reconnaissance satellites operated by the U. S., Japan, Russia, Israel and Europe.
The Republic of China also operates a small imaging spacecraft that can photograph objects as small as about 10 ft. in size, a capability good enough to count cruise missiles pointed at Taiwan from the Chinese mainland. The Taiwanese in the past have also leased capability on an Israeli reconnaissance satellite
john - 19 Jan 2007 00:31 GMT > Thought folks might want to know about this one. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Wednesday, January 17, 2007 >snip Shouldn't be a problem since Globalist George and his Buds said we can do business with them. Americans are paying for the Communist Chinese advances in Military capabilities. I wonder if they will demand we turn over America to them to redeem all those Dollars they hold or if they will demand the surrender of America for the Communist cause?
George - 19 Jan 2007 07:00 GMT >> Thought folks might want to know about this one. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > those Dollars they hold or if they will demand the surrender of America > for the Communist cause? Not to worry. Since they've tied their economy to our markets (yes, they are still our markets), the first time they take out one of our staellites, their economy will go belly up. And I don't think the Chinese are that stupid.
George
Gernot Hassenpflug - 19 Jan 2007 08:20 GMT >>> Thought folks might want to know about this one. >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > their economy will go belly up. And I don't think the Chinese are that > stupid. Certainly they are not stupid, Asian civilizations have a long culture of valuing education and learning from the past. However, I don't think your comment about "belly up" is valid. There are too many parameters involved in turning an economy belly-up. And since China's economy is still *not* an export-reliant industry, like for example Japan's, export restrictions will probably not have terrible effects (just my opinion too, BTW, not criticizing your view as wrong, I just don't give it the same probability). Model results would help I suppose. Another thing is that China holds a vast stock of US treasury bills, much as does Japan. That's "tying" the US economy to China and Japan, as much as US markets tie their conomies to the US.
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George - 19 Jan 2007 13:03 GMT >>>> Thought folks might want to know about this one. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > bills, much as does Japan. That's "tying" the US economy to China and > Japan, as much as US markets tie their conomies to the US. Oh I agree completely with that assessment. But China now has something it has wanted for a very long time - a western-style economy. Too many have made too much money from it to want to see it rolled back, in IMHO. I just don't see them using this new weapon in any meaningful way in the near future, least of all against the U.S. I do see them saber-rattling at Taiwan, and I think that that is where the threat truly lies, if there is one.
George
Revision - 23 Jan 2007 07:11 GMT > >. And since China's >> economy is still *not* an export-reliant industry, like for example >> Japan's, export restrictions will probably not have terrible effects I wonder how this statement was arrived at. China has large numbers of agricultural and subsistence farmers. Their kids go to the city to build coffee pots and radios and so on. I tend to think that if the US marekt was closed that the economic impact would be enormous. Of course, the 1.077 trillion that China holds in US Treasury debt would last for a while.
>. But China now has something it has wanted for a very long time - a >western-style economy. Perhaps. But the foundation it is built on is a third-world country. The major problem is water. 90% of the rivers in China are too toxic to touch. Wastewater treatment seems to be more difficult that letting all of the stuff just flow into rivers. Not to mention almost unregulated dumping of mercury, arsenic, acids, etc.
Hundreds of millions of Chinese are illiterate peasants living in crude mud houses. The whole country is a ramshackle mess except for a few percent of the economic elite, who put their money in Switzerland with the hope of retiring somewhere other than China. I am unimpressed by China on multiple levels. Local police are used as the personal enforcers for local Pary bosses to whip any political opposition into submission. Any sort of widespread social disruption would quickly lead to a mass holocaust as the prevailing psychology of the population lacks any really valid social contract, to say nothing of morality or what civilized people regard as common decency.
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Andrew Swallow - 23 Jan 2007 18:30 GMT >>> . And since China's >>> economy is still *not* an export-reliant industry, like for example [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 1.077 trillion that China holds in US Treasury debt would last for a > while. Risky. The value of the bonds is the interest the US Government pays. The USA could copy a lot of third world governments and refuse to pay.
>> . But China now has something it has wanted for a very long time - a >> western-style economy. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > any really valid social contract, to say nothing of morality or what > civilized people regard as common decency. The Chinese industrial expansion is based on converting peasants into factory workers. In about 15 years time they are going to run out of peasants. This will cause a major dislocation. The shortage of women will cause problems too.
Andrew Swallow
Kerryn Offord - 24 Jan 2007 01:53 GMT >>>> . And since China's >>>> economy is still *not* an export-reliant industry, like for example [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Risky. The value of the bonds is the interest the US Government pays. > The USA could copy a lot of third world governments and refuse to pay. <SNIP>
Just refuse to repay the Chinese, Or refuse to pay interest to everyone?
I can see defaulting on the interest resulting in the US having difficulty borrowing overseas... And interest rates going up (The dollar would attract junk bond interest rates because of the risk of default...)
If they just refuse to pay the Chinese.. They can sell the dollars for Euros etc.. The dollar will fall... (Supply and demand)
Gernot Hassenpflug - 23 Jan 2007 23:57 GMT >> >. And since China's >>> economy is still *not* an export-reliant industry, like for example [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 1.077 trillion that China holds in US Treasury debt would last for a > while. I did not mean that export is not important, it is important for the US also. But the internal market is huge.
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D - 21 Jan 2007 06:21 GMT >>> Thought folks might want to know about this one. >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > staellites, their economy will go belly up. And I don't think the Chinese > are that stupid. With the cessation of trade between our two countries, Wal-Mart goes belly up. Good bye small town America :-/
> George Tankfixer - 22 Jan 2007 02:18 GMT In article <9tKdnTVxgafQmy7YnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@comcast.com>, "D" <anytown.usa> mumbled
> >>> Thought folks might want to know about this one. > >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > With the cessation of trade between our two countries, Wal-Mart goes belly > up. Actually Wal Mart just goes to another source
kenb - 22 Jan 2007 02:48 GMT "Tankfixer" wrote in message:
>> With the cessation of trade between our two countries, Wal-Mart goes >> belly >> up. > > Actually Wal Mart just goes to another source I've heard that they do that every so often anyhow, once the villagers start getting bolder and asking for raises and improved working conditions and such. Once that happens, they just shut it down and relocate somewhere else where the people are hungrier and less likely to complain about details like this.
Cheers, kenb
Tankfixer - 22 Jan 2007 03:24 GMT In article <hCVsh.16544$Ah.2635@read2.cgocable.net>, kenwho?@cogeco.ca mumbled
> "Tankfixer" wrote in message: > >> With the cessation of trade between our two countries, Wal-Mart goes [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > else where the people are hungrier and less likely to complain about details > like this. Hate to burst your bubble but Walmart doesn't own the factories in China.
Dave Kearton - 22 Jan 2007 03:31 GMT > In article <hCVsh.16544$Ah.2635@read2.cgocable.net>, kenwho?@cogeco.ca > mumbled [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Hate to burst your bubble but Walmart doesn't own the factories in > China. Walmart has 60+ stores there though. I guess they're not too competitive on price, coming up against the existing stores and street markets.
They _do_ have the edge on customer service. As of 2000/01 when I was there last, most of their department stores & retail outlets were based on the old, archaic Soviet model.
Bizarre with a capital F.
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buff82driver - 22 Jan 2007 06:32 GMT > With the cessation of trade between our two countries, Wal-Mart goes belly > up. > Good bye small town America :-/ HAH! More like hello small town america being Wal-Mart is driving all the mom and pop stores under. Wal-mart is evil and those that work for higher mangement are traitors and the truckers and clerks etc. are being exploited and used as a tool against their own country. Wal-mart may have started noble but what China has maniuplated it into as its personal direct crap goods pipeline into the USA its truly sad.
> > George wattman5619 - 19 Jan 2007 14:44 GMT This is why we need to continue are start wars program. We most likely helped in this technology as we had it in 1985 when an F-15 successfully downed a satelite over northern Canada. The Chinese are working on this tech, and I suppose the Russians too. But it can be a good thing as more and more kooks try to get their own nukes, ie North Korea and Iran. If Iran gets nukes and launches one into Isreal, what do you think will happen.
buff82driver - 19 Jan 2007 20:52 GMT > This is why we need to continue are start wars program. We most likely > helped in this technology as we had it in 1985 when an F-15 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Korea and Iran. If Iran gets nukes and launches one into Isreal, what > do you think will happen. The way to negate the threat is to target the launch facility or better yet just the pad used as to lessen the aftershock after a B-2 attack. Just make sure to use a bomber and not a conventional tipped ICBM as it could make China very nervous and wonder about it being a MIRV and lauch their nukes on a raid warning. Does anyone know if China has a credible satellite missile launch warning system? They might have spies based around our ICBM missile fields to call home if we launch but if a boomer opens up on them from the Pacific are they going to see the missiles comming before its to late to return fire? We could probably arrange an attack in such a way to ensure that a boomer is to far away from the sea lanes for anyone to see the rocket plume as it goes up. Just so the Russians don't warn China which they might not as China might figure what the hell if we are getting nuked anyway we should ensure that Russia doesn't come in after we have been crippled and nuke the ones who warned them too.
Jack Linthicum - 19 Jan 2007 15:07 GMT > Thought folks might want to know about this one. > [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > mainland. The Taiwanese in the past have also leased capability on an > Israeli reconnaissance satellite Analogy: The Chinese take a shot gun to a sleeping rabbit, the FY-1C weighs in at 950 kg and was in a sun synchronous orbit, ie an easy target. The KH-11 is the weight of a school bus and changes its orbital inclination and its altiutude from 150 nm to 600nm, it is designed to avoid anti-satellite missiles, as is its brother the KH-12.
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/satellites.cfm
Jack Linthicum - 19 Jan 2007 15:35 GMT > Thought folks might want to know about this one. > [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > mainland. The Taiwanese in the past have also leased capability on an > Israeli reconnaissance satellite The working relationships that this administration seems to have with its "enemies" is really remarkable. If we say al Qaeda is the major threat to the world, bin Laden drops a video saying just the same thing; if we rip Iran for their once and future nuke, they come back with a nyah-nyah we're going to bomb you. Now the Chinese are building up their really awful satellite intercept so the administration can pump for a giant laser.
January 19, 2007 Flexing Muscle, China Destroys Satellite in Test By WILLIAM J. BROAD and DAVID E. SANGER
China successfully carried out its first test of an antisatellite weapon last week, signaling its resolve to play a major role in military space activities and bringing expressions of concern from Washington and other capitals, the Bush administration said yesterday.
Only two nations - the Soviet Union and the United States - have previously destroyed spacecraft in antisatellite tests, most recently the United States in the mid-1980s.
Arms control experts called the test, in which the weapon destroyed an aging Chinese weather satellite, a troubling development that could foreshadow an antisatellite arms race. Alternatively, however, some experts speculated that it could precede a diplomatic effort by China to prod the Bush administration into negotiations on a weapons ban.
White House officials said the United States and other nations, which they did not identify, had "expressed our concern regarding this action to the Chinese." Despite its protest, the Bush administration has long resisted a global treaty banning such tests because it says it needs freedom of action in space.
The weather satellite hit by the weapon had circled the globe at an altitude of roughly 500 miles. In theory, the test means that China can now hit American spy satellites, which orbit closer to Earth. The satellites presumably in range of the Chinese missile include most of the imagery satellites used for basic military reconnaissance, which are essentially the eyes of the American intelligence community for military movements, potential nuclear tests and even some counterterrorism, and commercial satellites.
Experts said the weather satellite's speeding remnants could pose a threat to other satellites for years or even decades.
In late August, President Bush authorized a new national space policy that ignored calls for a global prohibition on such tests. The policy said the United States would "preserve its rights, capabilities, and freedom of action in space" and "dissuade or deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so." It declared the United States would "deny, if necessary, adversaries the use of space capabilities hostile to U.S. national interests."
The Chinese test "could be a shot across the bow," said Theresa Hitchens, director of the Center for Defense Information, a private group in Washington that tracks military programs. "For several years, the Russians and Chinese have been trying to push a treaty to ban space weapons. The concept of exhibiting a hard-power capability to bring somebody to the negotiating table is a classic cold war technique."
The White House statement, issued by the National Security Council, said China's "development and testing of such weapons is inconsistent with the spirit of cooperation that both countries aspire to in the civil space area."
An administration official who had reviewed the intelligence about China's test said the launching was detected by the United States in the early evening of Jan. 11, which would have been early morning on Jan. 12 in China. American satellites tracked the launching of the medium-range ballistic missile, and later space radars saw the debris.
The antisatellite test was first reported late Wednesday on the Web site of Aviation Week and Space Technology, an industry magazine. It said intelligence agencies had yet to "complete confirmation of the test."
The test, the magazine said, appeared to employ a ground-based interceptor that used the sheer force of impact rather than an exploding warhead to shatter the satellite.
The Bush administration has conducted research that critics say could produce a powerful ground-based laser weapon that would be used against enemy satellites.
The largely secret project, parts of which were made public through Air Force budget documents submitted to Congress last year, appears to be part of a wide-ranging administration effort to develop space weapons, both defensive and offensive.
The administration's laser research is far more ambitious than a previous effort by the Clinton administration to develop an antisatellite laser, though the administration denies that it is an attempt to build a laser weapon.
"There's nothing subtle about this," he said. "They've created a huge debris cloud that will last a quarter century or more. It's at a higher elevation than the test we did in 1985, and for that one the last trackable debris took 17 years to clear out."
Mr. Krepon added that the administration had long argued that the world needed no space-weapons treaty because no such arms existed and because the last tests were two decades ago. "It seems," he said, "that argument is no longer operative."
T3 - 19 Jan 2007 17:55 GMT > The working relationships that this administration seems to have with > its "enemies" is really remarkable. If we say al Qaeda is the major [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > up their really awful satellite intercept so the administration can > pump for a giant laser. The biggest fallout(pun intended) might well be from the junk in left in LEO, though I'm beginning to wonder why we've lost contact with our lastest KeyHole...
Ken S. Tucker - 20 Jan 2007 09:51 GMT ...
> An administration official who had reviewed the intelligence about > China's test said the launching was detected by the United States in > the early evening of Jan. 11, which would have been early morning on > Jan. 12 in China. American satellites tracked the launching of the > medium-range ballistic missile, and later space radars saw the debris. Could it be possible China remotely detonated that old satellite? Only a few ounzes of TNT would be necessary. Haven't quite read of a precise radar confirmation of an interception. A direct hit is an awesome achievement, I doubt China can do it. Ken
Jack Linthicum - 20 Jan 2007 11:37 GMT > ... > > An administration official who had reviewed the intelligence about [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > doubt China can do it. > Ken We apparently tracked the launch, thank someone for that. A direct hit by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large significant pieces is hardly a direct hit. The Chinese have created a lot of ill will by polluting an orbital area with this debris.
The Chinese offered to duplicate the "no weapons in space" treaty and the U.S. was the only nation to vote against it. We have been supporting the military-industrial complex and their search for new markets for new products by taking stances like that.
Ken S. Tucker - 20 Jan 2007 12:24 GMT > > ... > > > An administration official who had reviewed the intelligence about [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large > significant pieces is hardly a direct hit. As opposed to a "near miss"? Really it's the old hitting a bullet with a bullet problem that the most advanced US ABM systems have problems with.
> The Chinese have created a > lot of ill will by polluting an orbital area with this debris. It'll be ironic if the next space-walking chinkonaut gets a piece of space debris stuck in his bum, ouch!
> The Chinese offered to duplicate the "no weapons in space" treaty and > the U.S. was the only nation to vote against it. We have been > supporting the military-industrial complex and their search for new > markets for new products by taking stances like that. It's not that simple. Ken
Jack Linthicum - 20 Jan 2007 12:54 GMT > > > ... > > > > An administration official who had reviewed the intelligence about [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > It's not that simple. > Ken More like taking a scatter gun to a radio or TV. A stray piece of lead will do the same damage as total distruction. Most of the kinetic warheads are just that, a shotgun, since hit-to-kill requires either target cooperation or a very controlled situation not much different from target cooperation.
Some of the earliest Chinese MRBMs carried warheads 2.5 times the mass of this satellite, the occurence of significant debris suggests that the hit was not direct.
Ken S. Tucker - 20 Jan 2007 13:41 GMT > > > > ... > > > > > An administration official who had reviewed the intelligence about [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > More like taking a scatter gun to a radio or TV. A stray piece of lead > will do the same damage as total distruction. Hmm, I understand the BB thing would go right threw the sat, recall ~ 16,000 mph. Ever shoot a can with a .22? Damn thing justs sits there, even when the bullet goes through it.
> Most of the kinetic > warheads are just that, a shotgun, since hit-to-kill requires either > target cooperation or a very controlled situation not much different > from target cooperation. Sure, that will disable a warhead if something vital is damaged, but it won't blow it up, unless a fuel tank or some pressurized system is hit, but an old weather sat is a dead tin can.
> Some of the earliest Chinese MRBMs carried warheads 2.5 times the mass > of this satellite, the occurence of significant debris suggests that > the hit was not direct. I'm guessing your theory is the MRBM put a *cloud* of shot on a ballistic trajectory for the sat to fly into, (I shouldn't have to guess, you can explain you idea better than I can!), and that shredded the tin can sat. But even so, that requires extremely fine high speed split second guidance, recall there's no air to fin with, all final manuevers need to be done with thrusters.
The 16 variables are, sats: x,y,z,t ,dx,dy,dz (dv) and MRBM's X,Y,Z,T, dX,dY,dZ (dV).
To intercept requires, xyzt = XYZT , by processing the relative dV - dv in 3D. The Rusky's are 10-15 years ahead of the US, and it's on the edge of their ability. It's possible the interceptor stage was Rusky, but no way they'd sell it and I don't see a motive from an expansive demo. Smell's fishy to me. Ken
Jack Linthicum - 20 Jan 2007 13:54 GMT > > > > > ... > > > > > > An administration official who had reviewed the intelligence about [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > Smell's fishy to me. > Ken I would guess it missed by 10 miles or less, warhead a sort of super Claymore, at a range of 540 nm up, say 1000 mile flight path, miss is about what a MRBM of the Soviet vintage might do (SS-4) in a similar path. Not really accurate, again, shooting a radio with a shot gun from a range of 50 yards, announce it as a test if it fails. It is a form of blackmail, like "we have other toys, want to see one in operation?"
http://www.gisdevelopment.net/aars/acrs/1999/ps6/ps6211.asp
T3 - 20 Jan 2007 14:49 GMT > I would guess it missed by 10 miles or less, warhead a sort of super > Claymore, at a range of 540 nm up, say 1000 mile flight path, miss is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://www.gisdevelopment.net/aars/acrs/1999/ps6/ps6211.asp The big deal was if it (Kill vehicle) used a manuvering type IR seeker, if so, it was a fairly significant event. If it was a shotgun type thing, not so much. In any event, they really seemed to have pissed some folks off, how long all that crap stays in orbit and whether it ends up destroying something valuable will determine how long they stay po'd...
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/China_Anti_Satellite_Test_Sparks_Space_Junk_Outc ry_999.html
by Richard Ingham Paris (AFP) Jan 19, 2007 China's test of an anti-satellite weapon triggered charges Friday that it had caused dangerous debris to scatter into low Earth orbit, posing a potential threat to commercial, scientific and military satellites of other nations. "It looks really terrible. I am shocked," said a space scientist, explaining that the reported test took place in a region thickly populated by satellites, including those used for monitoring storms and climate change.
"Space is not a playground for playing games," the scientist, outraged, said in an interview with AFP. "It's meant for the benefit of mankind."
The website space.com, quoting sources that it did not identify, said the January 11 strike against the old Chinese weather satellite had caused it to smash up into "hundreds of hundreds of pieces, fluttering through low Earth orbit."
"The mess of space junk does put other satellites, including the International Space Station, at some risk," space.com's Leonard David said, adding though that the chances of this were "very small."
The main repercussion of Chinese test has been fears of an arms race in space -- but debris is another big source of concern.
The space age reaches 50 years on October 4 this year -- the anniversary of the launch of the Soviet satellite Sputnik -- and there are hundreds of thousands of pieces whirling in orbit, the result mainly of exploded rocket stages and broken-up satellites.
David Wright, co-director of the Global Security Programme at the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS), a US private advocacy group, said the satellite that was destroyed had a mass of 750 kilos (1,650 pounds) and had been orbiting at an altitude of 850 kilometers (520 miles).
Many commercial, military and navigational satellites orbit in the region of 900 kilometers (560 miles), he said. The maximum altitude of the International Space Station is around 450 kilometers (280 miles).
"The collision would be expected to completely fragment the satellite into millions of pieces of debris -- nearly 800 debris fragments of size 10 centimeters (four inches) or larger, nearly 40,000 debris fragments with size between one and 10 centimeters (half to four inches) and some two million fragments of size one millimeter (0.04 inch) or larger," said Wright.
"At the very high speeds these debris particles would have, particles as small as one millimeter (0.04 inch) can be very destructive."
Most satellites do not carry sufficient shielding for even tiny particles like this, and in any case shielding is ineffective against any debris larger than about one centimetre (half an inch) in size," said Wright in a statement.
The orbital region "is very heavily used by satellites for both civil and military uses, which are threatened by the added debris," he warned
Among those who voiced fears was Australia, which said on Friday that, in addition to worries about the militarisation of space, "we're concerned about the impact that debris from destroyed satellites could have on other satellites, which are very expensive pieces of equipment."
The danger from debris comes from the enormous speeds at which they travel, which means even very small pieces impact with high energy.
In 1996, a French spy satellite, Cerise, was wacked at about 50,000 kilometers (30,000 miles) per hour by a wheeling fragment left from an exploded Ariane rocket.
In June 1983, the windscreen of the US space shuttle Challenger had to be replaced after it was chipped by a fleck of paint measuring 0.3mm (0.01 of an inch), that impacted at four kms (2.5 miles) per second.
The worst debris clouds are in two main areas -- in low Earth orbit (LEO), which is at an altitude of between 800 and 1,500 kilometers (500 and 950 miles) above the Earth, and in geostationary orbit, about 35,000 kms (22,000 miles) away. In LEO, debris can take a decade or longer before eventually burning up on contact with Earth's atmosphere.
The Chinese test was first reported by US magazine Aviation Week and Space Technology and confirmed by the White House.
The only other anti-satellite test that has been carried out was in September 1985 by the United States. Its method, as China's, was a "kinetic energy" weapon, essentially slamming a projectile into the target.
Source: Agence France-Presse
Monte Davis - 20 Jan 2007 16:47 GMT "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
>Really it's the old hitting a bullet with a bullet >problem that the most advanced US ABM >systems have problems with. Do you really see no difference between hitting your own weather satellite, in a well-known orbit, with multiple windows of opportunity every day and unlimited time to prepare...
And hitting one or more ballistic missiles/warheads on very short notice -- possibly from many launch pads and/or subs, possibly stealthed and/or jinking evasively, possibly among many decoys?
It's not silly to describe the former as a first step in the direction of the latter. It *is* silly to say they're the same thing.
Monte Davis http://montedavis.livejournal.com
Greg D. Moore (Strider) - 21 Jan 2007 03:51 GMT > As opposed to a "near miss"? > Really it's the old hitting a bullet with a bullet > problem that the most advanced US ABM > systems have problems with. Other than the "bullet" we're hitting was in a known orbit, tracked for days if not weeks, had no counter-measures, etc.
It's about on-par with some of our own ABM tests. Useful, but not necessarily saying an operational ABM system where the above factors are the opposite is financially worthwhile.
>> The Chinese have created a >> lot of ill will by polluting an orbital area with this debris. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It's not that simple. > Ken Tankfixer - 22 Jan 2007 02:21 GMT In article <1169295867.757957.17720@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, dynamics@vianet.on.ca mumbled
> > We apparently tracked the launch, thank someone for that. A direct hit > > by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > problem that the most advanced US ABM > systems have problems with. Or you put a reciever on the "test" missle and tune it to hone on a transmission from the "target"
Andrew Swallow - 22 Jan 2007 10:26 GMT > In article <1169295867.757957.17720@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, > dynamics@vianet.on.ca mumbled [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Or you put a reciever on the "test" missle and tune it to hone on a > transmission from the "target" Launching both missiles from the same site and similar amounts of fuel will tend to get them to orbit at the same height and inclination. Give one a speed boost and wait for them to crash.
There is a big difference between a bullet and a satellite, your interceptor gets another go at the satellite every 100 minutes.
Andrew Swallow
Diamond Jim - 22 Jan 2007 12:39 GMT >> In article <1169295867.757957.17720@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, >> dynamics@vianet.on.ca mumbled [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Andrew Swallow "Give one a speed boast........" and the orbit will change! They may never meet.
Its not simple as changing speed, that's why they call it rocket science.
Jack Linthicum - 22 Jan 2007 12:59 GMT > >> In article <1169295867.757957.17720@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, > >> dynamics@vianet.on.ca mumbled [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Its not simple as changing speed, that's why they call it rocket science. Yes the ability to change orbit is one of the great assets of the U.S. recce program, it is carefully laid out in the descriptions of the KH-11 and KH-12 improvements.
"The KH-12 can adjust its orbit to provide coverage of areas that are of particular interest, and can maneuver to avoid anti-satellite interceptors - powered by a large rocket engine attached to a frame that also resembles the Hubble Space Telescope." http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/satellites-pr.cfm
Tankfixer - 23 Jan 2007 02:21 GMT In article <A6GdnSjK-_PaDCnYnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com>, am.swallow@btopenworld.com mumbled
> > In article <1169295867.757957.17720@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, > > dynamics@vianet.on.ca mumbled [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > fuel will tend to get them to orbit at the same height and > inclination. Give one a speed boost and wait for them to crash. I understand the target was a out of service weather satellite.
> There is a big difference between a bullet and a satellite, your > interceptor gets another go at the satellite every 100 minutes. I'd wonder if there arn't some "trailers" out there sitting a hundred miles back and waiting for the "go" signal to boost and catch up.
Andrew Swallow - 23 Jan 2007 18:22 GMT > In article <A6GdnSjK-_PaDCnYnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com>, > am.swallow@btopenworld.com mumbled [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I understand the target was a out of service weather satellite. I did not know that at the time. However the same technique can be used, just several years apart.
>> There is a big difference between a bullet and a satellite, your >> interceptor gets another go at the satellite every 100 minutes. > > I'd wonder if there arn't some "trailers" out there sitting a hundred > miles back and waiting for the "go" signal to boost and catch up. Weather satellites consist of a camera and a powerful transmitter. The missile may have used radar, ground radar or tracked the transmitter. If the missile was in a lower orbit it could simply have waited until the satellite entered its target area and then started its rocket engine.
Andrew Swallow
Tex Houston - 20 Jan 2007 16:01 GMT > A direct hit > by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large > significant pieces is hardly a direct hit. Would you please decode the above statement.
Tex
Jack Linthicum - 20 Jan 2007 16:30 GMT > > A direct hit > > by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Tex Big thing hit small thing destroy called direct hit. Big thing explode not hit small thing and not destroy small thing called miss.
The statements made say the 1600 pound satellite was in multiple pieces in orbit
"The Chinese test, which Beijing has not acknowledged but was tracked by intelligence agencies, destroyed an aging communications satellite some 500 miles above the Earth. The missile smashed the satellite into hundreds of pieces large enough to pose a danger for a decade or more to spacecraft or satellites that pass through the debris." NYT
DF-2 MEDIUM-RANGE BALLISTIC MISSILE
The DF-2 (NATO code name: CSS-1) is a single-stage, liquid-propellant, road-mobile, medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) Re-entry Vehicle Weight: 1,500kg
DF-3 INTERMEDIATE-RANGE BALLISTIC MISSILE
The DongFeng-3 (DF-3, NATO designation: CSS-2) is a single-warhead, single-stage, liquid-propellant, intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM). Re-entry Vehicle Mass: 2,150kg
http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/missile/df2.asp
Tex Houston - 20 Jan 2007 16:55 GMT >> > A direct hit >> > by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > hundreds of pieces large enough to pose a danger for a decade or more > to spacecraft or satellites that pass through the debris." NYT Did the missile HIT the satellite or not? You better read your statement again.
Tex
Jack Linthicum - 20 Jan 2007 17:32 GMT > >> > A direct hit > >> > by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Tex How the hell should I know? If you read my two statements you will see I did not state one way or other, but implied (heard that word?) that if the missile had hit the bird there would not have been all those big pieces around. I estimate closing speed on these two objects to be around 35,000 miles per hour. Work out how much energy is expended when two objects collide, one at 4000 pounds and the other at 1600.
Assume the satellite will travel the equivalent of the circumference of each orbit, approximately 38,850 miles. in 102 minutes, therefore speed is something around 22k mph, the missile is at least 10k mph and possibly more, and is not closing from behind.
La N - 20 Jan 2007 17:35 GMT >> >> > A direct hit >> >> > by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > speed is something around 22k mph, the missile is at least 10k mph and > possibly more, and is not closing from behind. Nothing to do with the topic ... but ... since this is being x-posted to the space shuttle group, Jack, do you have any idea of future shuttle launching dates?
And could the Chinese shoot down a space shuttle if they wanted? ..%)
- nil
Jack Linthicum - 20 Jan 2007 17:47 GMT > >> >> > A direct hit > >> >> > by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > - nil launch dates at http://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/launches/scheduleStatus.asp March 16 on this but I heard it may slide up.
Given that the shuttle is at 166 nm, 17k mph and passes over China several times a day a similar shot is possible. Some of the background on Gen. Hackett's WWIII books had a 1980s era laser blinding the shuttle pilots.
La N - 20 Jan 2007 17:54 GMT >> >> >> > A direct hit >> >> >> > by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > http://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/launches/scheduleStatus.asp > March 16 on this but I heard it may slide up. Hmmm ... it seems that in the past couple of years, shuttle launches have become more frequent that they are barely newsworthy anymore.
> Given that the shuttle is at 166 nm, 17k mph and passes over China > several times a day a similar shot is possible. Some of the background > on Gen. Hackett's WWIII books had a 1980s era laser blinding the > shuttle pilots. Yes, a laser would be just as effective, cheaper and more reliable .....
- nilita
Bill Baker - 21 Jan 2007 04:48 GMT [...]
>> Could it be possible China remotely detonated >> that old satellite? Only a few ounzes of TNT [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > We apparently tracked the launch, thank someone for that. But was the US intelligence apparatus alerted with sufficient lead time to collect a real-time radar track on the ASAT launch and supposed KKV track conjunction with the satellite? What about telemetry intercepts to/from the target satellite? My impression, from the information publically disclosed, is the answer to all these questions is no. We apparently have enough tracking data from routine orbital monitoring to make a before-and-after conclusion of a probable ASAT intercept, but I doubt we have the telemetry intercepts to rule out the scenario that Ken posits. It would be one heckuva high-cost, long lead-time feint for the Chinese to have lofted a boobytrapped weather satellite for eventual exploitation as an ersatz ASAT target, but it seems that we didn't collect the ELINT to rule that out.
dott.Piergiorgio - 21 Jan 2007 10:23 GMT Bill Baker ha scritto:
> But was the US intelligence apparatus alerted with sufficient lead time > to collect a real-time radar track on the ASAT launch and supposed KKV > track conjunction with the satellite? AFAIK there's a treaty whose estabilish prior warning of ICBM tests and space launches. No one wants to get ballistic (literally!) and start global nuclear exchange for a mere test of ballistic missiles. Someone at NORAD or equivalent Russian air defence system need to know that the launch in date X at hour Y is a mere test and not the start of WW III...
Best regards from Italy, Dott. Piergiorgio.
Ken S. Tucker - 21 Jan 2007 17:48 GMT > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > doubt we have the telemetry intercepts to rule out the scenario that > Ken posits.
> It would be one heckuva high-cost, long lead-time feint > for the Chinese to have lofted a boobytrapped weather satellite for > eventual exploitation as an ersatz ASAT target, but it seems that we > didn't collect the ELINT to rule that out. Just a few more points, It could be SOP to have a self-destruct on a satellite, in case something goes astray, a few ounces of TNT is likely plenty.
The Chinese have not yet made a statement I know of. Typically they'd be inclined to know what we'd be able to gather, about the test to learn about our intel.
The so-called "debris field" analysis should give a really good idea of how the satellite was fractured. Our intel on that might be classified. From what I can gather, which isn't much, the debris is characteristic of a self-destruct, the signatures are quite different.
Given the current administations perchant to report worst case scenarios from fuzzy intel, could be it's an alligator under our bed.
So on the balance of probabilities I figure it's a hoax as an ASAT kill. What it does do though is prove China can blow a BIG PITA FART. Ken
Jack Linthicum - 21 Jan 2007 18:00 GMT > > [...] > > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > a BIG PITA FART. > Ken Debris is in a slightly different orbit that what the FY-1C was in.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=spacespace&id=n ews/CHI01177.xml
USAF radar reports on the Chinese FY-1C spacecraft have been posted once or twice daily for years, but those reports jumped to about 4 times per day just before the alleged test.
The USAF radar reports then ceased Jan. 11, but then appeared for a day showing "signs of orbital distress". The reports were then halted again. The Air Force radars may well be busy cataloging many pieces of debris, sources said.
Ken S. Tucker - 21 Jan 2007 19:19 GMT > > > [...] > > > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Debris is in a slightly different orbit that what the FY-1C was in. I didn't see that in your ref's, but anyway a minor explosive can produce a "slight" course changing thrusting impulse.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=spacespace&id=n ews/CHI01177.xml
> USAF radar reports on the Chinese FY-1C spacecraft have been posted > once or twice daily for years, but those reports jumped to about 4 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > again. The Air Force radars may well be busy cataloging many pieces of > debris, sources said. Thanks, if you happen on some new data please post. Ken
Jack Linthicum - 21 Jan 2007 19:43 GMT > > > > [...] > > > > [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > Thanks, if you happen on some new data please post. > Ken Sorry, I must have used a different reference.
"Jeffrey Lewis, executive director of Harvard's Managing the Atom Project was among the first to disclose the incident Jan. 17 in a blog he writes for the Web site armscontrolwonk.com.
Lewis said in a Jan. 17 telephone interview that an analysis of orbital data that is gathered by U.S. Air Force space surveillance systems and posted online at Space-Track.org and Heavens-Above.com indicated that the Chinese FY-1C weather satellite, which was launched in 1999, disappeared from view about Jan. 11. In an interview Jan. 18, Lewis said the satellite reappeared Jan. 12 in a different orbit and in multiple pieces. Lewis said the orbital tracking data strongly suggested the satellite was struck by a missile fired from the Chinese mainland.
"This is an enormous mess they [the Chinese] have created. There is no excuse for what is a reckless, stupid and self-defeating decision on their part," Lewis said.
"Space-Track is showing about 40 pieces of debris, which is probably just the tip of the iceberg," Lewis said. Space-Track.org is the U.S. Air Force Web site that provides public satellite tracking data" .http://politics.yahoo.com/s/space/whitehouseconfirmschineseantisatelliteweapontest
Ken S. Tucker - 21 Jan 2007 20:22 GMT > > > > > [...] > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > Air Force Web site that provides public satellite tracking data" > .http://politics.yahoo.com/s/space/whitehouseconfirmschineseantisatelliteweapontest Thanks Jack, I quote "classified briefings" from your link. Anyway, let me maintain my tact, there is no way Lewis could have determined that "different orbit" from a preliminary radar echo from the debris field, because the echo has no mass data. Another thing to consider is the analysis of the flight 800 that exploded off Long Island. Now some fellows did research on the possibility of a meteor hitting the plane. The effect of very high energy ~ 20,000 mph bullet is nil, because it has no time to react, so not much energy is transferred.
Tell ya what, light a candle and pass you finger through the flame quickly, no time for heating, that's a tripe example, but close enough. Thanks again Ken
Jack Linthicum - 21 Jan 2007 20:46 GMT > > > > Debris is in a slightly different orbit that what the FY-1C was in. > > > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > from a preliminary radar echo from the debris field, > because the echo has no mass data. You were doing pretty well there, too bad. I estimate something like 100 orbits of what remains, there are models for surmising the mass and tracking to confirm it. I presume the next step is to take that back in time to do guesstimates of the size and nature of the force used to do in FY-1C, and from what angle it was used. One item said it was 4 degrees west of a known launch site, but if they used one of the mobile MRBMs that is just conjecture.
Ken S. Tucker - 21 Jan 2007 22:25 GMT > > > > > Debris is in a slightly different orbit that what the FY-1C was in. > > > > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > You were doing pretty well there, too bad. Well thank you Jack, I pretty much burned through the public information, as course and ambigous as it is. Thanks again, Ken
> I estimate something like > 100 orbits of what remains, there are models for surmising the mass and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > degrees west of a known launch site, but if they used one of the mobile > MRBMs that is just conjecture. buff82driver - 20 Jan 2007 14:22 GMT > ... > > An administration official who had reviewed the intelligence about [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > doubt China can do it. > Ken The technology to hit a non-manuvuring satellite in low earth orbit is not as advanced as you think it is. We did it using pre486 and PowerPC processors in the 80s and could have done it sooner had we used a shotgun pellet approach in the 70s as opposed to a direct hit. What killed ABM work for the most part is MIRV technology. A satellite has a relatively fixed orbit and is extremenly predictable. What would be impressive is if the satellite was using its thrusters to change orbit in a unknown way to the missile and it still scored a hit. If that had been aiming at an american spy satellite I have my doubts of it hitting it. We would have aggressively had it change orbit and I would not be suprised if our sats have rocket flares to spoof any IR signature from solar sat heating and chaff and jammers. At orbital speeds even a slight change in oribt makes for a huge correction an interceptor must adjust for which is not easy late in the game b/c of its inertia. Just like evading a SAM. What the ChiComs did is like shooting down a SR-71 not speeding up or slowing down or turning at all. Its hard but it can be done.
Jack Linthicum - 22 Jan 2007 11:29 GMT > Thought folks might want to know about this one. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > 11 destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target with a kinetic > kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile. I saw a Japanese report that some liaison officer with the Chinese embassy or the foreign office said he hadn't been informed. Some might see this as a demonstration of the PLA that the "government" isn't the only force in China. It took a week for the U.S. end of the intelligence chain to finally get a piece of news out, " protests filed by the United States, Japan, Canada and Australia, among others, were met with silence - and quizzical looks from officials in The Chinese Foreign Ministry, who seemed to be caught unaware."
"In an interview late Friday, Stephen J. Hadley, President Bush's national security adviser, raised the possibility that China's leaders might not have fully known what their military was doing."
January 22, 2007 U.S. Tries to Interpret China's Silence Over Test By DAVID E. SANGER and JOSEPH KAHN
WASHINGTON, Jan. 21 - Bush administration officials said that they had been unable to get even the most basic diplomatic response from China after their detection of a successful test to destroy a satellite 10 days ago, and that they were uncertain whether China's top leaders, including President Hu Jintao, were fully aware of the test or the reaction it would engender.
In interviews over the past two days, American officials with access to the intelligence on the test said the United States kept mum about it in hopes that China would come forth with an explanation.
It was more than a week before the intelligence leaked out: a Chinese missile had been launched and an aging weather satellite in its path, more than 500 miles above the earth, had been reduced to rubble. But protests filed by the United States, Japan, Canada and Australia, among others, were met with silence - and quizzical looks from officials in The Chinese Foreign Ministry, who seemed to be caught unaware.
The mysteries surrounding China's silence are reminiscent of the cold war, when every case of muscle-flexing by competing powers was examined for evidence of a deeper agenda.
The American officials presume that Mr. Hu was generally aware of the missile testing program, but speculate that he may not have known the timing of the test. China's continuing silence would appear to suggest, at a minimum, that Mr. Hu did not anticipate a strong international reaction, either because he had not fully prepared for the possibility that the test would succeed, or because he did not foresee that American intelligence on it would be shared with allies, or leaked.
In an interview late Friday, Stephen J. Hadley, President Bush's national security adviser, raised the possibility that China's leaders might not have fully known what their military was doing.
"The question on something like this is, at what level in the Chinese government are people witting, and have they approved?" Mr. Hadley asked. He suggested that the diplomatic protests were intended, in part, to force Mr. Hu to give some clue about China's intentions.
"It will ensure that the issue will now get ventilated at the highest levels in China," he said, "and it will be interesting to see how it comes out."
The threat to United States interests is clear: the test demonstrated that China could destroy American spy satellites in low-earth orbit (the very satellites that picked up the destruction of the Chinese weather satellite).
Chinese military officials have extensively studied how the United States has used satellite imagery in the Persian Gulf war, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and in tracking North Korea's nuclear weapons program - an area in which there has been some limited intelligence-sharing between Chinese and American officials. Several senior administration officials said such studies had included extensive analysis of how satellite surveillance could be used by the United States in case of a crisis over Taiwan.
"This is a wake-up call," said Robert Joseph, the under secretary of state for arms control and international security. "A small number of states are pursuing capabilities to exploit our vulnerabilities."
As a result, officials said, the Chinese test is likely to prompt an urgent new effort inside the Bush administration to find ways to counter China's antisatellite technology. Among the options are efforts to "harden" vulnerable satellites, improve their maneuverability so that they can evade crude kinetic weapons like the one that destroyed the Chinese satellite and develop a backup system of replacement satellites that could be launched immediately if one in orbit is destroyed.
American officials noted that the United States and Russia had not conducted such tests for two decades, and that the international norm had changed, in part because so many private satellites had been launched by many nations. "The Chinese seem out of step on this one, and we don't know why," one official said.
But the more immediate mystery about the destruction of the satellite revolves around China's prolonged silence - and what it says about the commitments President Hu and President Bush have made concerning increasing their communication, and diminishing the secrecy around China's military buildup.
Chinese leaders often hesitate to engage with foreign officials on matters of military secrecy. It took days to get the Chinese to respond in the first foreign policy crisis to confront the Bush administration - the forcing down, on Chinese territory, of an American spy plane in 2001. Eventually the plane's crew was returned, unharmed, but the prolonged silence unnerved American officials.
In this case, the communication blackout raised the possibility that top Chinese officials were either trying to anger the United States or that the test was conducted without the full involvement of the one official who has authority to coordinate the military and civilian bureaucracies: President Hu. American officials said they believed that the Foreign Ministry - the one department that deals daily with the rest of the world - was left in the dark.
"What we heard, in essence, was, 'We'll get back to you,' " said a senior American diplomat. "It was unclear they even knew what was going on."
Chinese political and military analysts, who would not speak on the record about an issue the Chinese government still regards as secret, said they considered it unlikely that the army's Second Artillery forces, in charge of its ballistic missiles, would conduct a test of a sophisticated new weapon without approval from the highest levels.
But they suggested that the test might have been approved in principle, with little advance preparation for the diplomatic fallout in the event it was successful. That entails not just new military worries; the destruction of the weather satellite left debris in space that could damage satellites from other nations.
"It's the kind of silence that makes you wonder what's happening inside the country," said another senior American official who has been monitoring the case. "I'm sure the Chinese leadership knew there were tests under way, in a general sort of way. But they don't seem to have been prepared for a success, and they clearly had not thought about what they would say to the world."
The timing is significant. Chinese officials have hinted in recent months that they are prepared to grant an American request to establish a military-to-military hot line that may be used to enhance communication. But China has moved slowly to establish the link, which is based on the cold war hot line to Moscow, and there is little evidence that Chinese military officers would have offered an explanation for the antisatellite test if it had been set up.
President Bush and Mr. Hu hold regular phone conversations about continuing issues, including how to manage North Korea's nuclear program. But Mr. Hu and Mr. Bush never developed the kind of close ties that Mr. Bush's aides forecast once the pragmatic-sounding Mr. Hu, who is close to Mr. Bush's age, took office.
Their relationship suffered during an awkward trip by Mr. Hu to Washington last spring, when Mr. Bush declined to hold a state dinner for him - there was a working lunch instead - and the arrival ceremony was marred by a mistaken announcement that the anthem that would be played would be for the Republic of China, the formal name for Taiwan.
Gernot Hassenpflug - 23 Jan 2007 03:02 GMT Hehe, some funny stuff in that article. I suggest flexing of muscle or not, one should always be on the lookout for more information about the deeper agenda, since almost by definition government agendas are not laid out openly. The gaffe about the national anthem is funny too: does that reflect on how the US administration feels a real Republic should be run? :-)
 Signature BOFH excuse #87:
Password is too complex to decrypt
Brian Gaff - 23 Jan 2007 10:01 GMT I get the impression that someone in China is in terrible hot water over this..:-)
Brian
 Signature Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email. graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Hehe, some funny stuff in that article. I suggest flexing of muscle or > not, one should always be on the lookout for more information about > the deeper agenda, since almost by definition government agendas are > not laid out openly. The gaffe about the national anthem is funny too: > does that reflect on how the US administration feels a real Republic > should be run? :-) Jack Linthicum - 23 Jan 2007 11:09 GMT > I get the impression that someone in China is in terrible hot water over > this..:-) [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > Password is too complex to decrypt I get the impression that the recent appearance of the Chinese President in military uniform is a possible sign that he is trying to place himself in a way that in the event of a military push for more resources and expansion he can be seen as leading. Much as the old football coach line about "the trick is to appear to be leading a parade when you are actually being run out of town".
Jack Linthicum - 23 Jan 2007 11:27 GMT January 23, 2007 China Confirms Missile Test to Destroy Satellite By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 4:40 a.m. ET
BEIJING (AP) -- China's Foreign Ministry said Tuesday that Beijing had confirmed its recent missile test to some countries, including the U.S. and Japan, but that it is against an arms race in space.
Both Washington and Tokyo expressed concern about the Jan. 11 test in which China used a missile to shoot down one of its old weather satellites. Both said the anti-satellite test would expand the arms race to space.
''China has opposed the weaponization of space and any arms race,'' Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told a news conference, adding the test was not targeted toward any country.
Before China's confirmation of the test, the U.S. said it detected the weapon destroying an old Chinese weather satellite. Aviation Week, which first reported the test, said the satellite was hit by a kinetic kill vehicle launched from a ballistic missile.
Analysts said the test represented an indirect threat to U.S. defense systems by raising the possibility that its spy satellites could be shot down. The threat wouldn't affect the anti-missile system, which relies only on ground-based radar.
The U.S. military has had the capability to shoot down satellites since the 1980s. In October, President Bush signed an order asserting the United States' right to deny adversaries access to space for hostile purposes.
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