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Space Forum / Shuttle / April 2006



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In the interest of sci-fi accuracy

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Nomen Nescio - 24 Apr 2006 02:00 GMT
For me, the most satisfying science fiction films lay off the fantasy and
stick to real or plausible near-future science.

The question posed is this:  How should rocket engines be visualized as
viewed from behind when fired in space?  In the early days of T.V., the
flames,smoke, and roaring exhaust clearly were incorrect.  In recent
movies, a bright glow in the nozzles signal their operation, with smoke and
flame absent, but still with some dramatic license taken with audio
effects.  Perhaps we can stretch the audio to imagine the sound is what an
astronaut would hear from within the craft, rather than outside it.
Presumably there is no sound travel in space, even transiently when the
immediate area is tenuously gasified.

Real video of the Moon lander taking off seemed to indicate there is
nothing to see or hear at all; no smoke, no glow, no nothing except the
surface disturbance by an obvious blast of exhaust gas.  Perhaps the video
was not of sufficient resolution or sensitivity.  Surely astronauts must
have seen what if any visual phenomena there is when rocket engines fire in
space.  Does anybody have the real answer, which may benefit special
effects people in the motion picture business?
Pascal Bourguignon - 24 Apr 2006 03:09 GMT
> For me, the most satisfying science fiction films lay off the fantasy and
> stick to real or plausible near-future science.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> effects.  Perhaps we can stretch the audio to imagine the sound is what an
> astronaut would hear from within the craft, rather than outside it.

Yes, we still need to make use of imagination to patch and edit most
of the movies.  But also, sometimes we expect false things.  For
example, the look of Mars atmosphere in "Stranded"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283015/ was critisized because it wasn't
as "red" as expected, but it was realistic.

> Presumably there is no sound travel in space, even transiently when the
> immediate area is tenuously gasified.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> space.  Does anybody have the real answer, which may benefit special
> effects people in the motion picture business?

The impulse to take off from Moon is much less than on Earth, and
what's more, it took off from the lower stage of the LEM, with the gaz
deflected horizontally well above Moon surface, and no atmosphere to
drag the dust.

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__Pascal Bourguignon__                     http://www.informatimago.com/

"You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you read it in the
original Klingon"

mdicenso@seds.lpl.arizona.edu - 26 Apr 2006 21:53 GMT
> > For me, the most satisfying science fiction films lay off the fantasy and
> > stick to real or plausible near-future science.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> deflected horizontally well above Moon surface, and no atmosphere to
> drag the dust.

A lot of answers to these and many other questions about the Apollo
moon landings, and the effects the LEMs had on the lunar surface can be
found at Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy site specifically made to debunk
the moon-landing-was-a-hoax conspiracy nutjobs:

http://www.badastronomy.com/

-Mike
hop - 24 Apr 2006 05:23 GMT
> Surely astronauts must  have seen what if any visual phenomena there is when rocket
> engines fire in space.
You can see examples for yourself in the video of various ISS dockings
and undockings. Here is on available on the web:
<http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=
180&Itemid=1
>

Of course this only gives you an example of small thrusters using one
particular kind of propellant. Most sci-fi involves propulsion systems
that are fictional anyway, so the 'right' appearance is speculative at
best.
 
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