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Space Forum / Shuttle / March 2006Space Shuttle Chaos Continues
Space Shuttle Chaos Continues Whoever goes up next on this bucket of bolts has a huge pair. Talking about a pucker factor! If someone farts it will be so high the dogs will whine.It's time we retire this thing and develop new technology for blasting people into orbit. The Russians are kicking our a.s in the access to space business. China is looming. But hey! America has Diversity and Feminist/Lesbian Hens in charge. Only one problem. The eggs are rotten. http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/dale_bio.html Read this Bio of the ASSISTANT NASA ADMINISTRATOR Tell me if you see Astronaut, Pilot, Aeronautical Engineer, Test Pilot, Military Service, Astronomer or Aerospace Engineer In her BIO???? Unfucking Believable And we wonder why our manned space program is in the toilet? * * CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- NASA <javascript:siteSearch('NASA');> on Tuesday postponed the launch of space shuttle Discovery <javascript:siteSearch('space shuttle Discovery');> from May until at least July because of an all-too-familiar problem?!?!?!?!?: a faulty fuel tank sensor.A similar problem briefly delayed last summer's launch of Discovery on the first shuttle flight since the *Columbia* <javascript:siteSearch('Columbia');> disaster in 2003. yeah they only stepped back and worked the problem after it malfunctioned again:( Thats on a critical ONE system.... wonder how many other unexplained troubles are just being ignored:( Challenger and columbias lessons havent been effective at all!! were going to have another accident and nasa management will clearly be the reason. The safety boards post loss conclusion. The trouble appeared on 10 flights before the atlantis loss, but was listed as a unexplained anomaloy, and not fixed. looking back it was clearly a problem just like challengers O rings and columbias foam loss. The underlying problem was managements schedule push to get as many flights in before the 2010 end date. In retrospect this safety imposed date made the program less safe. At thois point politicians tired of costs, deaths and endless delays since the CEV is nearly 3 years behind schedule will remove manned from NASA charter. sadly we are setting ourselves up for this one today:( > yeah they only stepped back and worked the problem after it > malfunctioned again:( [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > The trouble appeared on 10 flights before the atlantis loss, Umm, Atlantis loss? Care to rephrase that? George <Umm, Atlantis loss? Care to rephrase that? George > I just picked one of the remaining orbiters names, for this prediction. nasa managers had workers doing double shifts, resulting in multiple accidents, didnt bother fixing the overall tank foam problem nd didnt bother finding the root cause of the low fuel sensors. all this adds up to lipservice on safety and go fever rulling the world. sadly we will lose another vehicle and crew. nasa hasnt lkeared a thing from columbia and challenger:( > <Umm, Atlantis loss? Care to rephrase that? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > nasa hasnt lkeared a thing from columbia and challenger:( I think they learned one thing: The shuttle is a dog. George Dog but still a JOB, thats all that remains:( Science, discovery, safety, and everything else is forgotten t keep the job program alive just a bit longer.... > At thois point politicians tired of costs, deaths and endless delays > since the CEV is nearly 3 years behind schedule will remove manned from > NASA charter. It seems to me that it would be a better idea to remove NASA from the charter and give the job to someone who can do it! There is no denying that NASA is a soft target for politicians wanting to score quick points by attacking Government spending. Nevertheless you have to seriously wonder if they (NASA) really are the right people for the job. Katipo >> At thois point politicians tired of costs, deaths and endless delays >> since the CEV is nearly 3 years behind schedule will remove manned from [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Katipo There is no denying that NASA has problems. But taking away their charter is probably not an option at this point. Even if you did, and gave it to someone else (who that would be escapes me)the people who work at NASA would likely end up being hired by whoever you found to replace them, so you'd end up with many of the same people doing the work. I just don't see your suggestion as a viable solution. George History has taught us that for thousands of years humans have engaged in exploration to scientifically answer questions about the world and universe in which we live. Exploration requires construction of new technology and new ways of travel, for which a strong leader is required to seek large funds to accomplish such a task. The development U.S. rockets and the original space exploration vehicles were achieved under the strong leadership Dr. Werhner Von Braun. But both our nations rocketry fathers Dr. Von Braun, and Dr. Goddard required funding from the military, and so both struggled with maintaining the scientific integrity of their respective projects, with military secrecy. The culmination of Von Braun's success and strong leadership was the mighty Saturn program, the pinnacle of our nations early space exploration successes. But by 1969 Dr. Von Braun was discouraged as he was departing and the next generation of leadership, was seeking the funds from congress to develop the next generation projects, the space shuttle, space station. History of rocketry & space travel Von Braun & Ordway third revised edition 1975, page 287 col 2 par 3 "Henry the navigator would have been hard put had he been requested to justify his actions on a rational basis, or to predict the payoff or cost effectiveness of his program of exploration." We are at a crossroads for the nation's space program, as the space shuttle is being decommissioned, and we are transitioning to the next generation space vehicle. Currently the nation lacks the strong leadership in public, nasa, congress, and administration to develop the next generation space vehicle. Dr. Von Braun's concern for what he saw as a waning public interest in the nation's space program has been correct as proven over the past 30 years. Scientific goals, not promises of cost savings must be the basis for our nation's space exploration efforts, as many discoveries are accidental, and profits will not be realized for years after initial funding. This nation needs the strong leadership to once again bring together thousands of gifted people, and billions of dollars for development of our next space exploration vehicle, or history will never forgive us. Tom How can the CEV be 3 years behind schedule when it was only first mooted last year? Katipo > yeah they only stepped back and worked the problem after it > malfunctioned again:( [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > sadly we are setting ourselves up for this one today:( > How can the CEV be 3 years behind schedule when it was only first mooted > last year? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> since the CEV is nearly 3 years behind schedule will remove manned from >> NASA charter. It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him. Jeff  SignatureRemove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address. It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him. Jeff so jeff and everyone if the next shuttle is lost to another management screw up what do you think will happen to nasa and manned space? > It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him. > > Jeff > > so jeff and everyone if the next shuttle is lost to another management > screw up what do you think will happen to nasa and manned space? What I am starting to find funny is even though the flight rate keeps getting cut, and cut and cut you keep saying another shuttle will be lost. I suspect if the flight rate were cut down to five flights you'd be singing the same song. >> It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > lost. I suspect if the flight rate were cut down to five flights you'd > be singing the same song. I'm sure he will. In my opinion, saying that the next accident will end the shuttle program is kind of silly, since it's clear now that there is already an end date. Even if there isn't an accident between now and 2010, the program will still come to an end. These last few shuttle flights to "finish" ISS are just the last gasp of the clearly dying shuttle program, just as Skylab and ASTP were the last dying gasps of Apollo. Jeff SignatureRemove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address. Achievement of the space station was implicitly placed on the space shuttle fleet, and therefore public expectations and disappointment in lagging construction have led to public frustration with the space shuttle program. Congress and the public have exerted pressure to deliver scientific and commercial discoveries in justification of space station funding, but never completely funded the orbiter fleet and space station and therefore the station and shuttles have been caught in a stage of limbo. The public especially "this groups members" should understand the quandary the space shuttle program has been placed in by external forces, for instance the public outcry to retire the orbiter fleet now or without the completion of space station construction as set out in the late 90's. The orbiter fleet has performed wonderfully, we have failed it. The shuttle fleet requires maintenance just like any other vehicle, we just need to be committed to take care of it, and otherwise failure of the system is our fault not the systems. Making unrealistic promises and therefore raising expectations has led to public pressure on the orbiter fleet to complete a project, without providing enough money. The public or taxpayers will never realize all of the benefits from their investment if the orbiter fleet is prematurely retired and station construction halted, or scaled down. The concept of making the orbiter fleet bear the burden of "peoples" failure to fully fund projects, and maintain the fleet sets a fate for us to repeat mistakes of the past no matter what the program, the cev included. tom > >> It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him. > >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Jeff Jeff MY PINT is was, if we have another accident between now and the end date the program is as dead as the astronauts of columbia and challenger. even a realtively minor accident like skidding off a runway, thats it POOF GONE, whatever remains intact will be museum material the next day. sadly I believe RTF means another accident:( Just look at management pushing workers too hard. Multiple accidents and one never knows, in the flight prep completeed so far might be the next accident cause..... > >> It's Bob Haller, enough said. Killfile him and be done with him. > >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Jeff Jeff MY POINT is was, if we have another accident between now and the end date the program is as dead as the astronauts of columbia and challenger. even a realtively minor accident like skidding off a runway, thats it POOF GONE, whatever remains intact will be museum material the next day. sadly I believe RTF means another accident:( Just look at management pushing workers too hard. Multiple accidents and one never knows, in the flight prep completeed so far might be the next accident cause..... I guess it depends how low you want to set the bar for our nation's space program. Hypothetical failures although interesting and thought provoking number in the millions, and yet rarely reflect reality. Any system is subject to failure, it is a matter of what the metric is set at, and how you quantify accident. Above all else the same if not stricter metric should be applied to a replacement system such as the cev for space program improvement. NASA is run by civil servants. Do you expect anything good from an organization run by these overpaid under worked lowlifes. > Space Shuttle Chaos Continues > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > of Discovery on the first shuttle flight since the *Columbia* > <javascript:siteSearch('Columbia');> disaster in 2003. sad nasa has lots of hard great workers, but they arent in a management position with any power. the existing way to be a manager elminates creative thinkers and encourages suck ups and status normal lets not look for troubles. this is the root cause of many troubles. the terrible news is were at great risk for another shuttle accident, sadly this will probably end nasa and manned space together. maybe thats best?? current managers have shown their wrong stuff not looking at ALL foam troubles and not finding and fixing the low fuel sensor trouble... they STILL have their head up their butts:( FROM US SPACE NEWS! Note the sensors arte OLD, some from 1996. Wonder how many other aged parts are still being installed near or at the end of their design age end? Which one may kill another crew? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NASA announced that July 1 to 19, 2006, is the new launch planning window for Space Shuttle Discovery's mission (STS-121). I have to say the Shuttle program is working just about right. Bold in the areas it needs to be bold and shy when technical reality calls for it. The biggest delay is being caused by the need for more wind tunnel data. The delay will provide support to work on the ET (change out engine cutoff (ECO) sensors - some that date from 1996 - during testing, one of the four ECO sensors had a slightly different reading than is expected), modifications to the STS-300 ET, and repairs to Discovery's RMS (Discovery's RMS was instrumented as part of a DTO). >sad nasa has lots of hard great workers, but they arent in a management >position with any power. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I would privatize the Space program and hire Richard Branson The glory days of NASA went away when the white male nerd was deemed not to be politically correct. Now NASA like most of the Federal Government is a failed social experiment run horribly amok. NASA FEMA TSA FAA all Politically Correct messes spiraling out of control with feel good politics and social engineering disasters in management. The only hope for manned space flight is privatization and profit incentives. Space tourism with science missions contracted by various institutions. Most of the people now working for the federal government can't spell science much less promote and encourage it. > NASA is run by civil servants. Do you expect anything good from an > organization run by these overpaid under worked lowlifes. > > > http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/dale_bio.html > > > > Read this Bio of the ASSISTANT NASA ADMINISTRATOR If you read the bio, you will see that this is not a civil servant per se, but a political appointee. This means that she serves at the discretion of the President and can be replaced anytime the President feels like making a change. JD The was no criminal or civil consequences for the decision makers said ok to launch, on January 28, 1986 resulting in the loss of the sts-51l crew and challenger. No person or entity should be above the law, and therefore responsibility for the Columbia tragedy should not be converted into a public "caning" as seems the core of some posts, but dealt with legally. Responsibility by our nations space program must be a serious issue with the public or concerned citizens, for it is through our demands that changes occur. These changes will only be achieved through civil debate by people who are knowledgeable on the particular issue at hand whether it is vehicle design or contractual clauses. The head of nasa is a political appointee, and therefore the public has a large influence on the demands being made of nasa. Congress appropriates the funds for particular projects, or entities comprising nasa, therefore citizens who do not demand proper funding and responsibility are also contributing to the declining state of our nation's space program. The consequences of bad, or unethical, or negligent, or malicious decisions have caused the loss our nation's astronaut's lives, and therefore is the concern for all, especially the informed public. |
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