Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsSpace ScienceAstronomyAmateur AstronomySpace FlightSpace StationShuttleSpace HistorySpace PolicySETI
SpaceKB.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Space Forum / Shuttle / January 2006



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Just watched CNN Presents: Christa McAuliffe Reach For The Stars

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Eric - 23 Jan 2006 03:51 GMT
I have to say that I enjoyed it.  It was mainly about her life, with little
attention given to the "cause" of the accident, and surprisingly hardly any
political posturing.  All in all, I thought it was a pretty good tribute to
her.  It also certaintly brought back memories of that cold day in Jan,
1986.

Like millions of other school kids, I watched the disaster live on TV at
school.  I was in the sixth grade at the time.  Its rather strange, but
because of Challenger, so much of (personal) events that occured on Jan
28th, 1986 remain vivid to this day.   I can recall, in full clarity,
conversations between peers and teachers, walking home from school through
the ice and snow covered "tundra" that covered the midwest (meteorologists
were calling it a "Siberian Express"), watching the news at home that entire
night, and even exactly what I ate for lunch and dinner on that day.  I also
remember, and admit to taking part in, the many "What does NASA stand for"
'jokes' that literally began the next day.   In retrospect, it wasn't to
disrepect, but just our way of dealing with it.  Anything else, at that age,
would be considered "corny".

Very strange indeed.

The documentary made no mention of, and I hope the media doesn't turn it
into a "sensation frenzy", but I'm sure that I'm not alone with the
"reserved anticipation" and perhaps "resolution" that may be brought about
with the upcoming STS-118.
Jim Oberg - 23 Jan 2006 14:35 GMT
Eric, thanks for the anxiety-diminishing report.

"Eric" <no_spam@n.nnn>
>I have to say that I enjoyed it.  It was mainly about her life, with little
> attention given to the "cause" of the accident, and surprisingly hardly
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> her.  It also certaintly brought back memories of that cold day in Jan,
> 1986.
Jim Oberg - 23 Jan 2006 14:38 GMT
Eric, I'm curious, if you remember -- were you
watching a broadcast television station (which cut
back to normal programming before the break-up
but then came back on to play tape of the dusaster),
or were you watching NASA TV (from a satellite) or
CNN, which AFAIK were the only sources of
live TV at the moment of the disaster??

In other words, your memory of 'seeing it live' --
was it an impression from near-real-time tape playback,
or actually at the moment of the disaster?

> Like millions of other school kids, I watched the disaster live on TV at
> school.  I was in the sixth grade at the time.
Eric - 24 Jan 2006 04:05 GMT
"Jim Oberg" wrote in message ...

> Eric, I'm curious, if you remember -- were you
> watching a broadcast television station (which cut
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> was it an impression from near-real-time tape playback,
> or actually at the moment of the disaster?

Hi,

It was a "feed" that we saw it on, but unfortunetly I don't know/remember
the particulars.   However, I can say with full certainty that it wasn't one
of the "Good Morning, America" broadcasts that I remember being common with
morning shuttle launches back in the 80's.

The scene of which we had the broadcast on wasn't a classroom with students
all sitting attentively at their desks watching a TV, but rather in the
library doing non-related work with a TV in the "background" for anyone that
cared to watch the launch.   We were in the library primarily to make use of
library resource materials.   We all had these jars of water that we had put
put grass and weeds into weeks prior and allowed to basically "ferment".
Between making use of the library material and a few microscope "stations",
we were basically there just to draw sketches of plant and animal cells.
(Those jars smelled something awful!)  The launch was more or less just
something abstract in the background, a welcomed distraction as it attracted
the attention of our teacher, a few other teachers, the vice-principal, and
a handful of the more interested students.   With the teachers distracted
and being able to freely roam around the library, working in groups (sharing
color pencils), it was more of a social hour for the rest of us than
anything else.

Our middle school had some sort of "educational video feed", which I think
was run by the state.  I don't know if it came in through coax or satellite
at the time.   I do know that there was a dedicated "A/V room" in the
library dedicated for it though.  The room also housed many TV's (on carts)
and those big, bulky, VHS recorders that schools loved in the 80's.   The
individual classrooms didn't have coax outlets, so the standard convention
for teachers was to record programs in the "A/V room" and then wheel the
TV's carts into the classrooms.  For the launch, the teachers had pulled a
TV cart into the library area and had a coax cable running from it into the
"A/V room".

While roaming around the library, I did go up to the group watching the
broadcast a few times during the countdown.  I remember them having a
conversation about the previous delays.  At the moment of the actual launch,
however, I was sitting back at my table with my group.

For most of us, I think we regarded the launch as just something routine.
Nothing out of the ordinary nor anything to get excited over.   Even the
idea of a civilian teacher being onboard didn't seem all that extraordinary.
In our sixth grade minds, going up on a shuttle certaintly doesn't involve
anything more than just "putting on a space suit, strapping yourself in, and
pushing a few computer buttons".   Sure, the technology was interesting, but
to show too much interest in it would make you look "nerdy" to your peers.
Besides, this is 1986 -- smooth sailing -- technology is going to come
automatically from here on.   In the year 2000, people will be living on the
Moon and humans will be starting to explore Mars.

From the vantage point of my table, I had a slightly obstructed view of the
TV.  I was looking over the shoulder of one of the kids up by the TV.  From
were we were, we couldn't hear the audio.   Neither our group or the groups
seated in tables around us were having a conversation regarding the shuttle,
except for a few remarks when it launched.   I remember one kid in our group
saying "There they go" and a girl in a group next to us saying, "If you
think you are so smart, you should be on that space shuttle!" to a boy in
his group.  (He was probably doing something flirtatious.)  My main thoughts
were on a girl too.  There was this dimple-cheeked extraverted girl that sat
in front of me in the classroom, so I was mainly wanting to just get out of
the library and back into the classroom so I could sit behind her and
daydream.  I didn't even want to go lunch because the smells coming out of
those jars was sickening.

At the moment of the disaster, I wasn't looking up at the TV, but quickly
looked in that direction after hearing a "group gasp" coming from that
direction.   I thought that something had happened in the room.  Perhaps the
TV cart was tipping over or something.  The thought that it was something
with the shuttle didn't even cross my mind.  It wasn't until after I stood
up a few seconds later and saw the cloud did I realize what had happened.
Even in the sixth grade, when seeing that cloud, we knew instantly that the
shuttle and crew were gone.

The principal came in a few minutes later and had them turn the TV off.   He
had very strong "Italian features", wore fine-tailed suits, and had a
fondness for discipline (making students do pushups for infractions was one
of his favorite methods), so naturally our overly-active imagination kept
the rumor that he was "Mafia" well alive.  We left the library some ten
minutes or so earlier than planned, returned our jars and folders to the
classroom, and then headed to the cafeteria for lunch.  I don't think there
were many (if any) other classrooms watching the launch broadcast since many
of the other students (and teachers) first learned what had happened from
our group that had been in the library.  During lunch, the principal made an
announcement to the student body, using a podium/microphone in the
cafeteria, of what had happened and asked for a moment of silence.

What I saw in the library of the launch did seem to be "raw".  There was no
commentary.  I also remember that at the bottom of the screen there was a
text scroller that was giving the time of upcoming shows (all educational
stuff) to be broadcasted later in the day.

I can't say with full certainty, but my best guess is that it was likely
"NASA TV" (was that around back then?) being piped into the "feed" that the
school received.   I do know will full certainty that there weren't any
commercial breaks during the hour leading up to it, at least none that I saw
anyway.  It seemed "raw" and straight forward.  It wasn't until that night,
on regular broadcast TV, did I see the replay after replay after replay of
the moment of disaster.

Wish I could fully answer your question of what the actual source was, but
unfortunetly can only describe how it was delivered. :/

-Eric
AldoNova - 24 Jan 2006 04:37 GMT
Eric,

That's a really good recollection of your moments during the disaster.
Nicely written, too. Do you write short stories or anything similar? You
have a natural style to your writing.

Thanks for sharing.

I know I wasn't asked but I'd like to give my recollections of that day.

I'm from Grand Rapids, MI and I was a few weeks away from turning 21. My
wife was at work and I was home that day. (I worked 3 days on, 3 days off).
I was newly married and was pretty used to doing plenty of housework from my
single days. I hate to admit this but I was ironing my shirts that morning
while I watched CNN. I had never had cable TV up until I was married so I
was a CNN junky at the time and a space fanatic since I was 4 years old
watching Neal step foot on the moon. In my opinion there was no such thing
as routine shuttle launches. All of them were awesome.

I remember the countdown, lift-off, the camera going to the families on the
bleachers several times. I don't know who the "expert" announcer was but he
was doing a pretty good job keeping my interest. Then, after "Roger, go with
throttle up." and the sudden "explosion", the big cloud with the SRB's doing
their odd ballet in the background, and that very long pause without
commentary. That pause lasted forever. "Flight dynamics reports a major
malfunction.... the vehicle has exploded..." (paraphrased I'm sure). I was
stunned, crushed, a bit watery eyed. I was certain there would be no
survivors. I don't know about you but there's a very unusual feeling I get
when you are watching something live and people are seriously hurt or
killed. It's as if even your bones know that what you are witnessing is
totally bad. It's a feeling that re-enactments or TV / movies can never
quite get. An absolute sense of the reality of the moment. As I write this
the hair on my arms is rising slightly.

I remember about 20 minutes after the break-up CNN had to give a news update
on what else was going on in the world. They want to a young, black female
reporter to give the 2 minute update. And you could tell she was having a
hard time staying focused at the task.

Those are my memories of the day. I was glued to the set well into the next
morning. I remember when Columbia broke up (my b-day, I turned 37 that day).
I was in a gas station and over-heard on the am radio playing behind the
counter that the shuttle was over due by 12 minutes and there was no sign
via radar or telemetry. Even without the visuals I had that exact same
feeling again.

Brian

> "Jim Oberg" wrote in message ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 150 lines]
>
> -Eric
Terrell Miller - 24 Jan 2006 13:39 GMT
> Those are my memories of the day. I was glued to the set well into the
> next morning. I remember when Columbia broke up (my b-day, I turned 37
> that day). I was in a gas station and over-heard on the am radio playing
> behind the counter that the shuttle was over due by 12 minutes and there
> was no sign via radar or telemetry. Even without the visuals I had that
> exact same feeling again.

missing major disasters as they are unfolding seems to be my lot in life.

Challenger: in college, was getting ready to go to work, radio/TV not on.
Heard about it roughly an hour after it happened from an AM rock station in
the car. Had to do a half day at the bank in a total fog. Didn't even see
any footage until late that afternoon. Remember one of the poorly-educated
clerks at teh bank talking about "that plane crash".

9/11: was getting ready for work, TV/radio off. Heard about it an hour after
the first attack when our NPR station broke away from playing a Strauss
waltz to go to a live NPR feed reporting the Pentagon attack and a rumor of
a car bomb outside State. Didn't even see any footage until I got home at
lunchtime after they sent everybody home early. There was a break room on
the floor above us with a TV so I could have gone upstairs, but for some
reason I stayed at my desk (don't abandon your post? Bias against TV as an
information source?) and listened to the radio. Strongly remember hearing
reports of the collapse of Tower 2 as it happened. Remember there was a
Delta pilot waiting for the subway when I arrived that morning. I told him
he wasn't going anywhere soon, FAA was grounding all flights in the air and
nobody was taking off. He just looked at me for a moment, pulled out his
Blackberry, scrolled through email and started calling the dispatcher's
office.

Columbia: heard about it an hour after it happened from a post on
rec.arts.sf.written. Was online but had long since moved off the news sites.
Saw a post about a rumor the shuttle was overdue, immediately went to USA
Today, their banner was "Columbia disintegrates over Texas". Gasped, ran
downstairs and turned on CNN.

Signature

Terrell Miller
millerto@bellsouth.net

"If Pop is a basket of kittens, and Punk a snarky little terrier, modern
Prog is the giant squid beast that eats them all"
-Entertainment Weekly

Eric - 24 Jan 2006 18:19 GMT
"AldoNova" <wrote in message ...
> I'm from Grand Rapids, MI and I was a few weeks away from turning 21. My
> wife was at work and I was home that day. (I worked 3 days on, 3 days off).
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Brian

Hi,

Thanks.  I enjoyed reading your recount as well.

Yeah, Challenger was definetly an icon moment of the 80's that was hard
etched into memory.  I don't think my sixth grade peers, or even myself, put
it into words, but we were effected by the loss of life.  (The 'jokes' that
followed were our way of dealing with it.)  We also viewed the shuttle as a
"window to the future", which was slammed shut by the Challenger incident.
john2375@hotmail.com - 24 Jan 2006 21:32 GMT
Challenger: Didn't see it live...was in Mr. Flynn's 5th grade mathclass
- just after lunch period and he came in and said quite bluntly: "the
shuttle w/the teacher just blew up"  He didn't want to talk about it so
we had class like normal..I couldn't concentrate - I was inlove w/the
space program -my mom even took me down to FL to see STS-41B launch cuz
it was going on my birthday - incredible...now that same shuttle w/our
"local" hero on board was gone - the next 2 classes of the day we
watched TV endlessly seeing the replays.
Pisses me off though that to this day, most people think it exploded
and they only can think of Christa's name..it didn't "explode" and
there were 6 other heroes on board that day too.

9/11: Had just moved to Las Vegas..didnt' have cable hookup or radio
yet - my mom was flying back from Denver to Boston that day (or was
supposed to) and my aunt called me to say she was OK.. I had no idea
what she was talking about so she told me the WTC had been attacked
w/airplanes- I got the TV on but w/no cable or rabbit ears had fuzzy
reception but good enough to see what'd happened.

Columbia: 5 minutes before it was lost, went outside (still in Las
Vegas) and saw the most brilliant steak across the sky as it made it's
way in - everything looked fine - not a problem at all - it was just
breathtakingly beautiful. I'd seen launches up close, ascents from New
England, passes overhead, even a landing from the VIP viewing (STS-85)
so this completed the 'circle' of seeing it in all phases of flight -
just incredible.  Went inside and thought it was strange the computer
updates stopped coming...switched on TV -still nothing - then Fox news
broke in saying that they had "what may be a potentially developing
story - NASA has lost contact with the space shuttle Columbia..." In
that instant, I knew they were gone - just knew...that whole day, like
Challenger, the eye accepted what the mind could not... I met Rick
Husband once..truly a nice person, as I know they all were
Glenn Shaw - 25 Jan 2006 01:12 GMT
Challenger: I didn't see the launch on TV that day -- I had forgotten
about the launch in the wake of other pressing matters of the day. Later
that afternoon, I was housesitting after my mother left to take care of
my grandmother down the street. I turned on the TV and idly flipped
through the channels, noting what appeared to be a NASA press conference
-- I turned it off thinking that it was a routine post-launch
conference. A few minutes later, my mom called, telling me that the
shuttle blew up. After th call, I turned the TV back on and flipped back
to the channel where I saw the press conference -- and watched it well
after until my mother came back.

9/11: The day started out pretty much -- the only thing I noted on the
radio while I was driving to work was that it was National 911 Day.
Shortly after my work shift started, my supervisor got a phone call from
her sister, and I heard the phrase "airplane hit the World Trade
Center". I immediately logged onto the Internet went to Yahoo! News and
saw a link "Plane hits World Trade Center", but when I clicked on the
link, the Web slowed down to a crawl. Thinking there was heavy traffic
on Yahoo!, I tried the CBS News, CNN and Reuters websites, with the same
results. I then remembered that we had a small TV\VCR combo that the
sales department used for presentations. I found it, plugged it in and
tuned it to the local NBC affiliate -- and saw one of the WTC towers
with a gaping and smoking hole in its side. The set was left on for the
entire day, so everyone in the office was able to watch the unfolding
tragedy as their work schedules permitted.

At about 1pm that day, sour supervisor asked me and my co-workers if
anyone wanted to leave for the day. Some of us did leave early, but I
stayed until my shift was over, determined not to let the indicent faze
me. After work, I listened to radio news reports on the drive home, then
turned on TV news coverage the moment I got home. Watching the tragedy
unfold (albeit on a tape-delayed basis) was both saddening and
terrifying.

Columbia: I was getting ready to go out for a day of shopping when I
decided to turn on the TV and check the local weather forecast. I
briefly passed CNN on the way to the Weather Channel and stopped when I
noticed mention of the Columbia's return; like Challenger 16 years
earlier, I had forgotten about the shuttle mission. I paused and noticed
the headline at the bottom of the screen: "Contact Lost with Columbia",
but my eyes were on the image -- it looked like footage of some of the
range safety aborts I had seen on the news before. I quickly put two and
two together and realized that something tragic had happened to
Columbia. I caught myself saying, "Oh God, not again", thinking of
Challenger, as tears welled in my eyes.

Needless to say, the incident was on my mind for the rest of the day.

Thinking back to all of these events -- particularly Challenger and
Columbia -- still brings tears to my eyes to this day. :(

Signature

Glenn Shaw • Indianapolis, IN USA
To reply by e-mail, remove "nospam" and swap "cast" and "net"

AldoNova - 25 Jan 2006 02:44 GMT
Hi,

Thanks for sharing. I find these recountings fascinating.

Hope to hear some more.

Brian

> Challenger: I didn't see the launch on TV that day -- I had forgotten
> about the launch in the wake of other pressing matters of the day. Later
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> Thinking back to all of these events -- particularly Challenger and
> Columbia -- still brings tears to my eyes to this day. :(
Andre Lieven - 25 Jan 2006 06:24 GMT
Since this is now a " where were you when you heard... " thread,
a few thoughts from where I was.

Challenger. I was at home, a mere 10 townhouses from where I am
residing now, with three different residences in between. In 1986,
here in Canada, CNN was not on basic cable, so I had no live teevee
feed. But, within minutes of the accident, I was recieving multiple
phone calls about it from the local SF fannish community. I turned
the teevee on, and over the day, filled about 9 hours of videotape
with coverage. I don't think I've watched them since, though.

9/11. I was still in northern NJ, at a now former g/f's place,
us spending some time after having attended the World SF Convention
a week before in Philly. She was off at school, teaching, and she
had left me sleep in when she left. Also, the day befire, I had
gone into NYC for the day, by PATH trains, and had returned by
about 7 PM. So, that AM, I awoke at about 5 minutes to 9 AM, and
in that room, there was a 27 inch teevee facing the bed. I figured
lets turn on CNN, and see what the AM news looks like, and, of
course, it was already full coverage of the attack on the WTC.
The announcer's equivacating over whether it was deliberate or not
notwithstanding, once I saw the size of the first impact hole,
I knew that it was done deliberately. A few minutes later, of
course, I was among the live viewers of Impact Number 2.

At about 10:30 AM, the g/f called in from her school, and asked
for a report from me, as word at the school was under effective
embargo, so as not to panic the kids. I filled her in on all of it,
up to that point in time. Later in the afternoon, I went outside
for some air, and I could make out the plume edge coming south
and west. That evening, the strangest thing was not to hear any
of the very busy aircraft landing sounds, as where I was was
close to Newark Airport.

On the drive back to Canada on the 20th, that there were militarialy
supported customs inspections on outgoing motor traffic was a sign
that things had changed...

Columbia. I slept in that saturday morning, past 10 AM, and between
waking and 11 AM, was listening to a recorded radio program on
CBC Radio 2. I had missed the 10 AM newscast, and only heard when
I caught the 11 AM 'cast, right after the program. I immediately
fired up CNN and sci.space.history, and alternated the coverage
between both, as at that time, my upstairs teevee and computer
were not in the same room.

OTOH, the first word I had of the successful landing of the shuttle
flight last August, was on a portable radio I had tuned into BBC,
while my S/O and I were on the train between Glasgow and London,
after having attended the World SF Convention that had ended the
day before in Glasgow. So, that was a better day.

Andre
Eric - 26 Jan 2006 00:49 GMT
I guess I'll also add a few more entries to the "where were you when you
heard" bin.
(They are interesting to read and recollect your own memories.)

Challenger: Sixth grade library.  Already wrote about that one in detail.

January 16th, 1991 (7:30PM'ish):  This was the first major event, after
Challenger, that really stuck.   I was, believe it or not, on the internet
(dialing up a relative's VAX/VMS university account!) and learned from there
that "something was happening over Baghdad".  I logged off, turned on CNN,
and of course watched (listened to) Peter Arnett and and Bernard Shaw
describing "the night sky of Baghdad being illuminated by anti-aircraft
fire".   Went over to a friend's house to watch the "game" with him and was
there by the time dad Bush came on to announce, "Tonight, the battle has
been joined".

WTC93:  Don't remember this one when it happened, but remember the newspaper
that followed the next day.   Actually, at the time, didn't know the extent
of it and thought it was just a minor explosion.  It would be a decade later
when I finally learned how much destruction WTC93 caused -- along with how
much effort was put into it.

OJ Simpson verdict, late summer 1995:  Ok, this one isn't really that much
of a big deal, but it still was rememberable.  I hadn't really been
following the whole OJ circus at all, other than the stupid glove and blood
stuff.   I was just glad to see that this circus was finally coming to an
end.   I was in the military at the time and in my commander's office.  We
were getting ready to do a jump that night and spend the next few days in
the field.   I can't remember exactly why I was in his office, but there
were about six or so people in there (CO, 1st Sgt, Platoon Sgt's, LT's, 60
gunners such as myself, ect).  It was a "festive" atmosphere, with jokes
(and bets) being made.  When OJ stood up for "Will the defendent please
rise", I made the comment, "I bet his heart rate is at training level!",
which got a round of laughter from the whole room.   I thought, for sure, he
was going to be found guilty and was surprised the instant I heard the word
"not".

911:  This one was surreal.  My girlfriend had the day off and I didn't have
to go in to work until that afternoon.  I was just getting out of the shower
when she told me that a plane had flown into the WTC.   We both have a
mutual friend, who we care a lot for, that works in lower Manhattan.  She
was originally from our area and had been "home" about seven months prior to
911 and made several comments about her daily routine that included going in
and out the WTCs.  Naturally, my girlfriend was very concerned for her so
she came into the bathroom to tell me right away.  I got dressed real quick
and we both went to the TV.  When I saw the hole and smoke, I figured it
probably was a Cessna, or maybe a Lear jet that hit the tower.  Reports
started trickling in that it was a commercial airliner.   Then there was a
"confirmation" it was a commercial airliner.  I said to her, cynically, that
it probably was some pilot who just laid off by the airline so he figured
he'd do himself and his passengers in.   Second plane hits.  It didn't even
register when the second plane hit.  The commentators (ABC, I believe we
were watching) made no comment when the second plane came in.  In your mind,
its like you are watching some replay of the first when the second hit and
just stunned, "What?".  Then it really got surreal with the Pentagon,
rumored bombing at State building, Pennsylvania, another plane suspected to
be coming in and targeting the Whitehouse or Capitol, ect.   The
over-abundence of real-time media information made it even more surreal.
Media already had the "Attack on America" graphics put together (with the
little sight), while events were still unfolding!  Reminded me of the media
events in "Starship Troopers".   By the time both towers fell, my girlfriend
lost it.   I would've been pissed regardless, but having a friend that could
have very well been a victim took it to a whole new level.  Completetly
emotionless and numb.  Beyond the point of being angry and wanting to beat
the sh*t out of someone, but at the point where you could put a round in
someone's head without emotion.  The media was speculating casualties in the
tens of thousands.  While my girlfriend was losing it, I was attempting to
google information on what floor certain businesses were on in the WTC
(places our friend mentioned) and mentally calculating "probabilities":  if
she had been on X floor, was there ample time to evacuate between the time
the plane(s) hit and the tower(s) fell.  I couldn't find the floors or even
which tower it may have been.   I also started talking out of my behind,
saying nonesense about getting a plane ticket to fly over "there" (nobody
yet knew where "there" was yet), aquiring weapons, and taking out as many of
those SOB's as possible.  With it possibly being personal, I regarded these
international SOB's no different than had it been some POS down the street.
Images of the cheering Palestinians and idiots back here who were already
stating, "Well, we did have it coming" even fueled these feelings more.
Later in the day, I remember my girlfriend asking, "Do you think there is
going to be a war somewhere because of this?", to which I simply relpied,
"Going to be?".   Around that time, it was all but "officially" disclosed
that the attacks were from OBL and his boys.  I didn't say it to my
girlfriend, but a thought emerged in my head:  "Sure, it probably is OBL and
his boys, but what if there is more behind it?  What if these attacks were
orchestrated, knowingly or unknowingly, by a state intelligence service?
Could OBL have been used as a proxy, say by China or North Korea, to cause
distraction before they did something stupid?"   Turned out, of course, not
to be.  As for our friend, it took about a week before we finally contacted
her.   She was fine, hadn't been in either WTC that day, but was a witness
to the day's events.  Since then, she has returned "home" a few times and
brought some photos of ground zero that she had taken.  (Actual photos piss
you off even more than just seeing it on TV.)
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.