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Space Forum / Shuttle / December 2005Go To Mars?
There is the possibility of life on Mars. Should we send a SSTP (Single Stage To the Planets) to Mars not knowing what kind of reception awaits? Take a close look at this picture from the Spirit Rover Sol 633 Navigation Camera. This picture is on a JPL site for the Mars Rovers. It is their picture that they posted, not mine. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/633/2N182561246ESFAEVO... What do you think? tomcat > There is the possibility of life on Mars. Should we send a SSTP > (Single Stage To the Planets) to Mars not knowing what kind of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Navigation Camera. This picture is on a JPL site for the Mars Rovers. > It is their picture that they posted, not mine. This is a corrected URL. Sorry about the other one, but this one should work. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/633/2N182561246ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG > What do you think? > > tomcat >> There is the possibility of life on Mars. Should we send a SSTP >> (Single Stage To the Planets) to Mars not knowing what kind of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >> What do you think? Excitement bubbling here............ but I would really like to see a high res shot of that area before celebrating! Is it just you and I who see multiple objects perhaps not from nature in that shot? It's late and I'm tired - guess I'll wake up to some rational guesses in about 8 hours? We'll see! sc http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/633/2N182561246ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG > Excitement bubbling here............ but I would really like to see a high > res shot of that area before celebrating! Is it just you and I who see > multiple objects perhaps not from nature in that shot? It's late and I'm > tired - guess I'll wake up to some rational guesses in about 8 hours? We'll > see! When enlarged those 'white boulder looking things' appear to be . . . houses. Even the roofs show up with a hint of an occasional window. There is also, next to the pond with a boulder in it, what appears to be a large 'community center' or 'factory' or 'operations building'. It is several stories high. Whatever they are they are not natural objects. There is too much symmetry, and the 'earthen wall', surrounding the water-like substance with the boulder in it, appears to be 'constructed', not natural. This is very evident with a 300% enlargement. tomcat > http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/633/2N182561246ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > tomcat Sorry to burst your bubble, but all that stuff just looks like soil mashed up by Spirit's wheels in the foreground, where it's done a bit of zigging and zagging about. >When enlarged those 'white boulder looking things' appear to be . . . >houses. Even the roofs show up with a hint of an occasional window. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >with the boulder in it, appears to be 'constructed', not natural. This >is very evident with a 300% enlargement. In your case, a 300% enlargement would fail to reveal a single active brain cell. You cease to amuse. Bye bye. Dale >> There is the possibility of life on Mars. Should we send a SSTP >> (Single Stage To the Planets) to Mars not knowing what kind of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> tomcat What are we supposed to be look at? I don't see anything. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/633/2N182561246ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG > What are we supposed to be look at? I don't see anything. You need to 'right click' your mouse on the picture, select 'save as', download the picture, put it in wang, kodak, or someother picture software, and blow the picture up by about 300%. You should see an earthen wall around what 'looks like' water with a boulder in the middle. To the right of that will be a building, at least 2 stories high, looking alot like a community center. To the right of that will be houses with roofs, without enlargement they could be mistaken for white boulders mysteriously lined up, and yet further to the right will be 'paths' leading to geometrical circular areas that might contain a house or perhaps they are just little parks. On the left of the earthen wall there is a geometrical area containing white things that might be anything from small huts to grave markers. They are arranged in an unnatural geometrical formation. The resolution is too poor to attempt to make out 'beings' or 'people'. Just what this means, I don't know, except that there are either Martians, Beings from some other planet or star system, or People from England, Russia, France, China, or some other country. Maybe it is a USAF base. Who knows? It may simply mean that the U.S. is woefully behind in the Space Race. tomcat if its true JPL would of had a BIG press release. Why no publicity? >Bob Haller; Why no publicity? I'm not exactly certain but, I'm thinking that "tomcat" is doing a damn fine observationology job of looking at a Mars ant farm. The scale of what looks potentially artificial is up close to the Navigation Camera, thus everything is in extreme distortion mode, especially compromised since there's nothing of known dimension within frame to work with. In other words, although I'm not entirely excluding some form of life which may have been originally involved, however this image is depicting relatively small stuff. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/633/2N182561246ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_n633.html The 'Front Hazcam' camera of Sol 633 tells us quite a different story. Unfortunately, their 'Microscopic Imager' recorded no Mars ants. We need to get to the sorts of artificial looking patterns of interesting shapes being worth several meters per given dimension, and not of cm or mm sized items. Folks like "tomcat" need to always include image data that offers us some degree of scale, and not that Mars ants wouldn't become the greatest discovery since sex, but we need those raw basics before we vector off into thinking we've discovered the holy grail of other life. Trust me folks because, I have just the opposit problem of what's so freaking large and looking as highly rational community like that's situated upon Venus, whereas I'm having to deal with 225 m/pixel and of merely 36 looks/pixel of 8-bit radar imaging that's nearly 3D to start with. ~ Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; WAR is WAR, thus "in war there are no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules, such as GW Bush. Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm > I'm not exactly certain but, I'm thinking that "tomcat" is doing a damn > fine observationology job of looking at a Mars ant farm. The scale of [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > with 225 m/pixel and of merely 36 looks/pixel of 8-bit radar imaging > that's nearly 3D to start with. I am of the belief, unsubstantiated by JPL, that the 'sub-frame edr' photo is a distant shot, because the 'horizon' is included and it appears, to me at least, that it is looking 'down' onto a smaller hill or depression in the general range of the Columbia Hills. Again, it is guess work, but I believe that what we are seeing is a mile away, or at least a half mile. There is another plausible solution: that the Martians are very small creatures, perhaps an inch or so tall. My real belief, however, is that considerable distance is involved here. That Martian plain is probably a mile or two off in the distance and probably extends for another 50 to 100 miles. tomcat tomcat, You could be right. Let us know when you've got some scale to work with. As you say, Martians could be extremely small folks, smaller than the 10,000 BC ETs of Dropa/Dzopa that are between 3' and 4' tall. I'd even be extremely impressed with discovering Martian ants or perhaps the likes of cockroaches that are nearly indestructible as here upon Earth. ~ Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; WAR is WAR, thus "in war there are no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules, such as GW Bush. Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm > tomcat, > You could be right. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > perhaps the likes of cockroaches that are nearly indestructible as here > upon Earth. The best I can do for scale on this picture is to point out that I have been looking at a bunch of these Spirit Rover pictures, especially the ones in the Columbia Hills. The Spirit Rover is currently high up in the Hills and distant pictures are pictures looking down with the vast Martian plain in the distance. I really don't believe this to be a close up photo showing 'rover tracks'. I have seen lots of those pictures, and they are obvious, and don't have ponds with boulders in them inbetween the tracks. No, this is different. I think that either JPL or NASA should tender an explanation. Or, if necessary, the government give an interpretation of the photo. There is another photo showing what, highly enlarged, appears to be a . . . house. It is sitting out on a hilltop connected to the one the Spirit Rover is on. The distance, which is difficult to judge, seems to make it about 1/10th the size of one of our houses of equivalent capacity. It appears to have a pointed roof, two stories with windows top and bottom, and a door. It is sitting on a ledge -- with a view. Based on this picture of a 'possible' house it may very well be that the Martians are the 'wee people' the Irish like to talk about. tomcat NASA Mars Exploration Rover Status 17 October 2005. http://www.lyle.org/mars/bysol/2-633.html http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N182561323ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG.html According to the NASA/Spirit specs; 136 kg rovers commenced their roving 15 Jan 2004; managing 100 m/day, and I seem to think that's a combined effort. Thus less than 50 m/day is having an extremely good rover day. That's simply not exactly zooming, thus the day before and the day after sol-633 should be at most within +/- 50 meters. "Sol 633: Spirit took pictures of targets on Hillary using the microscopic imager, performed an alpha particle X-ray spectrometer integration at night and checked for dust devils." "As of the end of sol 633, (Oct. 13, 2005), Spirit has driven 4,993 meters (3.10 miles)." That's only an average of 7.9 meters per solar day. I have a dog food fetish slug that has that pathetic performance beat by at least 10 fold. "Sol 634 (Oct. 15, 2005): Spirit finished investigating a rock outcrop called "Hillary" near the summit of Husband Hill. Spirit used the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer and the microscopic imager to study Hillary, then Spirit stowed the robotic arm. Spirit bumped back about 2 meters (7 feet) from the outcrop to complete remote imaging. Spirit used the miniature thermal emission spectrometer and panoramic camera to study targets on Hillary." "Sol 635: Spirit drove 47 meters (154 feet) east from the summit" (I believe that's zoomong down hill). http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/632/2N182478385EFFAEVOP1590R0M1.JPG http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N182553064EFFAEVOP1590R0M1.JPG.html This one of solar day 632 and the next of sol 633 includes the rover tracks within frame, thus affording some scale of what the navigation camera sees per given frame gets us to suggesting that the large bolder within the rectangular clearing as depicted in the sol-633 navigation image might be no larger than 0.5 meter, perhaps even as little as 0.25 meter tall. This doesn't exclude upon a high degree of artificial and/or intelligent life as having been involved, it just gets the relative size of their Martian lives down to a rather nifty small scale. Perhaps at best/largest similar to model railroad (1:48) O scale, though even more likely (1:64) S scale (3/16" per foot) could be the case. This means that a 6 foot Earth human would be easily stepping upon a similar proportioned 1.125" Martian, and of whatever Martian kids of less than 0.5" would easily get stuck in our boot or tire treads. A full sized 2-man rover that's zooming along at 5 m/s would be like creating a total demise of their entire community within a second of our driving over their township by mistake. If that doesn't start the war of our two worlds, I don't know what would. >Based on this picture of a 'possible' house it may very well be that >the Martians are the 'wee people' the Irish like to talk about. You could be right about those "wee people". At least from what little I know of smaller than us human folk, whereas smaller is a whole lot better off at being so much stronger for their body mass and certainly a whole lot more bio-energy efficient at that, could even have become nearly radiation proof and otherwise doing just fine and dandy on far less than 0.1% O2. But, what if they've developed those tiny H-Bombs, whereas those little heathen Martian bastards might get some weird notions of blasting holes in our boots. Then what? Brad Guth > if its true JPL would of had a BIG press release. > > Why no publicity? Speculation on "why no publicity?" could include that JPL didn't see the enlargment. They do have a hundred thousand rover pictures, and this particular picture was taken by the navigation camera, not the panorama camera. It could also include the possibility that JPL doesn't want to make a 'political' decision regarding life on Mars. I know that things, at all levels of government, and for the last 20 years or so, have been covered up. It is not something 'new' that the strange or bizzare might be 'covered up' or 'deferred' until someone on high can make a decision. Perhaps, some of the 'life on Mars' pictures have been omitted but this one squeaked through, or was never noticed. tomcat tomcat, This is a perfectly good image that PhotoShop of even 3:1 which yields a 9 fold increase in pixels is suggesting that once upon a time there could have been other life involved with what looks shelter and a bit community like. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/633/2N182561246ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG What's the image scale? However, thermal imaging and/or any number of other viable and easily obtained spectrum readings upon this same area have not given any signature of other than being of whatever's sub-frozen to death life that may have once upon a time coexisted. Even our robotic Mars-Rovers should be thermally detectable as being of an artificial substance. Satellite IR imaging has NOT afforded so much as 1 K worth of any m2 by m2 thermal differentials. Thus, if there's any significant other Mars life to behold, it's extremely cold-blooded life and having been rather TBI proof as well, not to mention having to be impact proof since that thin atmosphere isn't hardly worth slowing anything down. The artificial looking patterns and community like infrastructure upon Venus puts even this Mars image to shame, and that's too gosh darn bad since it's better than 100:1 easier for getting robotics into the Venus environment than it involves for doing Mars. You can't possibly operate any robotic rigid-airship expedition with respect to Mars. Mars sucks most of the life out of just about anything, including robotics, and it's certainly time and resource consuming as well as damn spendy to accomplish at that. However, you're perfectly correct about using whatever PhotoShop methods, and of the 'unsharp mask' plus similar photo-processing filters, especially if you exceed a 4:1 enlargement factor. Don't expect folks to see whatever it is that you see, especially the intellectually bigoted individuals that are most often only contributing in this topic in order to bash whatever's outside of their mainstream box. Personally I believe that this image as well as dozens of others suggest a high degree of there once upon a time being other life on Mars, of somewhat a small stature (Dropa/Dzopa like) souls that may have dug in (the deeper the better) when their going got tough. Thus little of surface thermal signatures would have become the norm, although other out-gassing should still be giving them away. ~ Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; WAR is WAR, thus "in war there are no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules, such as GW Bush. Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm <Mars sucks most of the life out of just about anything, including robotics, and it's certainly time and resource consuming as well as damn spendy to accomplish at that. > Somhow spirit and opportunity are doing well, considering you think they have the life sucked out of them:( > http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/633/2N182561246ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You should see an earthen wall around what 'looks like' water with a > boulder in the middle. The earthen wall would be the rover tracks circling around the rock in the center. Which measures about 6 inches high. To the right of that will be a building, at > least 2 stories high, looking alot like a community center. It's another volcanic rock maybe a foot high that is highly wind eroded in this ancient site. The wind erodes these rocks over time so they appear oriented and shaped in similar ways. > To the right of that will be houses with roofs, without enlargement > they could be mistaken for white boulders mysteriously lined up, and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > tomcat I sent the link to Keith Cowling who runs nasawatch. He too says rocks... Sorry, just imagine if it were true. Lots of funds for a mars trip!!!! > I sent the link to Keith Cowling who runs nasawatch. He too says > rocks... > > Sorry, just imagine if it were true. > > Lots of funds for a mars trip!!!! Saying 'rocks' is . . . safe. Probably what I would say if I had Cowling's job. But rocks don't have roofs. In the 300% enlargment roofs clearly appear with precise geometrical shape. So there is more here than just an arrangement of 'rocks'. On the right side of the picture there appear to be two paths, or roads, leading to yet other geometrical, round like, areas. Also, an enlarged view of the building next to the boulder shows that it is, in fact, a building, with what appears to be windows, and a two story 'penthouse' on top. tomcat tomcat, Once again, and it's not that Martian cockroaches are not going to be 100% acceptable but, it would certainly be real nice as to realize at least roughly what sort of scale we're dealing with. Surely there should be a day before and of one after the 633 solar day of what that general area has to offer. It's not as though the rover can travel all that far per day, and perhaps not at all by sub-frozen night. Is that bolder that's situated in the center of a somewhat fenced rectangular clearing worth all of a meter or, is it worth 10 or perhaps even 100 meters in diameter?????? What's the typical rover travel distance per martian day? Brad Guth "tomcat" <jlavine@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > Saying 'rocks' is . . . safe. Probably what I would say if I had > Cowling's job. But rocks don't have roofs. In the 300% enlargment [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > tomcat This is a joke, right? You're not serious, are you? Get out your red/blue glasses and look at this: http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/stereo/2-182372772-N.jpg You're looking at tire tracks. > "tomcat" <jlavine@bellsouth.net> wrote in message >> Saying 'rocks' is . . . safe. Probably what I would say [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > You're looking at tire tracks. He's a goofball; he'll see exactly what he wants to see. Just like Guthball. --Damon > "tomcat" <jlavine@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > > Saying 'rocks' is . . . safe. Probably what I would say if I had [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > You're looking at tire tracks. That is not the URL I posted. They are two completely different pictures taken at nearly the same time. The camera is not pointed in the same direction in these two different pictures, nor is the rover in the same position for the separate photos. tomcat > http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/633/2N182561246ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > tomcat Have you guys been on the wacky baccy or something? :) I enlarged the photo and studied the formations you are talking about. I think you are letting your imaginations get the better of you. Katipo > Have you guys been on the wacky baccy or something? :) > > I enlarged the photo and studied the formations you are talking about. I > think you are letting your imaginations get the better of you. If they aren't buildings with roofs, then what are they? And, please don't say they are perfectly natural Mars formations. One thing is for sure, they are very, very unnatural, both their shape and positioning. tomcat Sometimes imagination is all that we've got to work with. I think Einstein had a bit more than his fair share of imagination. ~ Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree; WAR is WAR, thus "in war there are no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of having to deal with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever rules, such as GW Bush. Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm Has anyone tried contacting JPL and asking whats up? > Has anyone tried contacting JPL and asking whats up? Nobody but you has had the 'common sense' to think of that. Why not give them a call? tomcat This is your topic, thus you should call JPL. At least then we'd have a better understanding of the scale we're looking at. This is just a copy of what I'd offered above. It allowed myself a indirect method of essentially deriving a SWAG of a notion as to the possible scale of such things. NASA Mars Exploration Rover Status 17 October 2005. http://www.lyle.org/mars/bysol/2-633.html http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N182561323ESFAEVOP1560L0M1.JPG.html According to the NASA/Spirit specs; 136 kg rovers commenced their roving 15 Jan 2004; managing 100 m/day, and I seem to think that's a combined effort. Thus less than 50 m/day is having an extremely good rover day. That's simply not exactly zooming, thus the day before and the day after sol-633 should be at most within +/- 50 meters. "Sol 633: Spirit took pictures of targets on Hillary using the microscopic imager, performed an alpha particle X-ray spectrometer integration at night and checked for dust devils." "As of the end of sol 633, (Oct. 13, 2005), Spirit has driven 4,993 meters (3.10 miles)." That's only an average of 7.9 meters per solar day. I have a dog-food fetish slug that has that pathetic performance beat by at least 10 fold. "Sol 634 (Oct. 15, 2005): Spirit finished investigating a rock outcrop called "Hillary" near the summit of Husband Hill. Spirit used the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer and the microscopic imager to study Hillary, then Spirit stowed the robotic arm. Spirit bumped back about 2 meters (7 feet) from the outcrop to complete remote imaging. Spirit used the miniature thermal emission spectrometer and panoramic camera to study targets on Hillary." "Sol 635: Spirit drove 47 meters (154 feet) east from the summit" (I believe that's zoomong down hill). http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/632/2N182478385EFFAEVOP1590R0M1.JPG http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N182553064EFFAEVOP1590R0M1.JPG.html This one of solar day 632 and the next of sol 633 includes the rover tracks within frame, thus affording some scale of what the navigation camera sees per given frame gets us to suggesting that the large bolder within the rectangular clearing as depicted in the sol-633 navigation image might be no larger than 0.5 meter, perhaps even as little as 0.25 meter tall. This doesn't exclude upon a high degree of artificial and/or intelligent life as having been involved, it just gets the relative size of their Martian lives down to a rather nifty small scale. Perhaps at best/largest similar to model railroad (1:48) O scale, though even more likely (1:64) S scale (3/16" per foot) could be the case. This means that a 6 foot Earth human would be easily stepping upon a similar proportioned 1.125" Martian, and of whatever Martian kids of less than 0.5" would easily get stuck in our boot or tire treads. A full sized 2-man rover that's zooming along at 5 m/s would be like creating a total demise of their entire community within a second of our driving over their township by mistake. If that doesn't start the war of our two worlds, I don't know what would. >Based on this picture of a 'possible' house it may very well be that >the Martians are the 'wee people' the Irish like to talk about. You could be right about those "wee people". At least from what little I know of smaller than us human folk, whereas smaller is a whole lot better off at being so much stronger for their body mass and certainly a whole lot more bio-energy efficient at that, could even have become nearly radiation proof and otherwise doing just fine and dandy on far less than 0.1% O2. But, what if they've developed those tiny H-Bombs, whereas those little heathen Martian bastards might get some weird notions of blasting holes in our boots. Then what? Brad Guth Take a close look at the following URl. It may have 2 Martian creatures in it, and possibly more. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/659/2N184874464EFFAJB1P0705L0M1.JPG Do an enlargement of the picture and check out the big "rock" near the center. When I enlarge it and look carefully, I believe I see 2 eyes looking back. It is a nce comfortable 'lair' for Mar's cold climate. tomcat > Take a close look at the following URl. It may have 2 Martian > creatures in it, and possibly more. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > center. When I enlarge it and look carefully, I believe I see 2 eyes > looking back. It is a nce comfortable 'lair' for Mar's cold climate. looks like a Grog to me... >>Take a close look at the following URl. It may have 2 Martian >>creatures in it, and possibly more. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > looks like a Grog to me... Or a Jawa about to pounce with its droid immobiliser... The area in the foreground and to the right is very close to where the picture was taken, if these are the houses you are "seeing" they would have to be awfully small. It's just a bunch of Mars dirt and that's all. Not meant to be a safe answer, just a realistic one. > This is your topic, thus you should call JPL. At least then we'd have a > better understanding of the scale we're looking at. [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > Brad Guth > The area in the foreground and to the right is very close to where the > picture was taken, if these are the houses you are "seeing" they would > have to be awfully small. > > It's just a bunch of Mars dirt and that's all. > Not meant to be a safe answer, just a realistic one. What you see is what you get. Cameras don't tell you everything, but they don't lie either. The Spirit Rover is in the Columbia Hills, small mountains really, and many of the shots are looking downward and are pictures of distant objects. Earth has lots of food. Mars is mostly rocks. People are taller here, that's all. Being one foot tall isn't that bad if everyone else is the same. > > This is your topic, thus you should call JPL. At least then we'd have a > > better understanding of the scale we're looking at. [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > heathen Martian bastards might get some weird notions of blasting holes > > in our boots. Then what? Earth has to watch out! Body size doesn't mean much at all. It is technology that matters. Their nukes are probably as powerful as ours -- and they might have terrawatt lasers besides. tomcat tomcat, You'll have to start this sub-topic over, this time keeping it posted entirely out of the sci.space forums that suck and blow, as that's about the one and only way your little Martians are ever going to stand a chance. Seems that sci.space.whatever or just sci.whatever Usenet is extremely bigoted, not only intellectually but biologically bigoted against ETs being of anything other than 6'3" worth of being white and extremely Jewish humans, exactly like their Third Reich partners in crimes against humanity have had it planned all along, the only exceptions being if you're blond and blue eyed. - "If you're not looking for the truth, you will not find it." -Brad Guth "To believe with certainty we must begin with doubting." -Stanislaus I "The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but having new eyes." -Marcel Proust "Truth is given, not to be contemplated, but to be done. Life is an action, not a thought." -F.W. Robertson ~ Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree far beyond; WAR is WAR, thus "in war there are no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of honest folks having to deal with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever the supposed rules, such as our resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush). Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm Stay off the drugs. Seriously you are seeing things where there is nothing.  SignatureAP > There is the possibility of life on Mars. Should we send a SSTP > (Single Stage To the Planets) to Mars not knowing what kind of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > tomcat > Stay off the drugs. Seriously you are seeing things where there is nothing. To properly view the pictures I have recommended you 'have to do' an enlargement. To properly enlarge the picture you should do a 'resolution increase'. Then it is often best to brighten the picture to remove shadows and dark areas. Your statement "stay off the drugs" is either the result of not doing a good blow up on the picture or it is simply . . . debunking. There is more than one picture with either unquestionable 'artifacts' in them or 'buildings' built by intelligent beings. Quite a few pictures in fact. So, I know what I am talking about. Really! There are pictures of a 'cement block', an object with a 'lion like face', flat thin 'squares', 'paper', an 'oil drum', 'poles', an 'A frame house', 'black worms', a 'rocket' in mid-flight, perfect rectangular areas containing 'structures' aligned in an orderly way, an alien looking 'steam shovel' digging a rectangular pit, cat-like 'animals', and more. So, please don't tell me I am "seeing things." JPL is doing a fine job of getting the pictures to us. It is up to us to give them a good once over, not a quick glance. The JPL site provides 'raw images' straight from an Alien Planet: Mars. Don't take it for granted as so many people are doing. And, if there really are people that will go 'nuts', as a think-tank study concluded, if they find out there is Alien Life in Outer Space, then they need to take their "drugs" . . . I don't. tomcat To assist those that are unable to find the interesting places that Spirit Rover visited, and to enable you to see a few of the enlargements, visit Star Dot Blog: http://stardot.blogspot.com/ tomcat I have a question ... if they are really houses then why don't we see the house lights at night ?? We find animals on Earth get larger the farther North you go or as it gets colder. It is much colder on Mars, wouldn't that suggest animals there would be much larger not smaller ?? I see nothing in these pictures and I have enlared them ... sorry, it's only a bunch of Mars dirt ... dirt that I would to be standing on. > I have a question ... if they are really houses then why don't we see > the house lights at night ?? I can only guess that they might not have electricity. Or, that their eyes are more light sensitive than ours and their dim lights don't show up well. While the one picture does look like a house, I don't see any neon signs, street lights, parking lamps or other bright lights that would be noticible from Outer Space. Just because they are Alien doesn't mean they are more advanced. > We find animals on Earth get larger the farther North you go or as it > gets colder. > It is much colder on Mars, wouldn't that suggest animals there would be > much larger not smaller ?? That was on Earth and these pictures are of Mars. Mars is farther from the Sun, colder, and may have a much dimished food supply. Not long ago, humans here on Earth averaged 5 feet or so. Today, 6 feet is close to norm. Also, according to the scientists, the atmosphere is carbon dioxide. While 'adaptation' may have enabled them to separate off the two oxygen molecules, it might be a less efficient process than directly absorbing oxygen from the air. If they do absorb oxygen from CO2 then they probably cough up black carbon from time to time. > I see nothing in these pictures and I have enlared them ... sorry, it's > only a bunch of Mars dirt ... dirt that I would to be standing on. It could be you aren't using contrast and brightness alteration to see within the dark, almost black, Martian shadows. Also, resizing -- or increasing resolution as it is sometimes called -- may allow for more sharply defined enlargements. I have just added a stunning new picture to Star Dot Blog: http://stardot.blogspot.com/ There are now 4 of the pictures that I have resolution increased, brightened, and cropped. The new pictures show what appear to me to be animals as well as a . . . Martian! But, as you have pointed out, the pictures have been enlarged to the point of blurry images. See for yourself. Rest assured that I have not 'faked', 'altered' (other than stated above), or 'blended' these photos in any way. They may be fuzzy, but they are not phoney. tomcat I'm sorry, I just do not see it. > I'm sorry, I just do not see it. Do not apologize. "tomcat" is either an idiot, a troll or insane. > > I'm sorry, I just do not see it. > > Do not apologize. "tomcat" is either an idiot, a troll or insane. Once again, they may be fuzzy, blurry, and hard to make out because of resolution increase and enlargement, but they are not phoney. What you see came from the JPL original. Nothing whatsoever has been added to the pictures. Dark shadows were erased with contrast and gamma changes, but nothing was drawn in or superimposed on the photos. Each photo on Star Dot Blog represents only a tiny part of the JPL original. In most cases it is a section in the distance that when enlarged appears very much closer to the Spirit Rover than it really is. I know these pictures may be disturbing to some, but they represent the 'truth' of Outer Space, not the cut and dried tumbleweed of hearsay and scuttlebutt.. tomcat >>>I'm sorry, I just do not see it. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > tomcat I didn't say the images were "phony" or changed in any way. I said you were an idiot, a troll or insane for thinking that rocks and dirt are little people in little houses. Do you go out in your backyard and talk to the little dirt people? If you are serious, you need professional help... > I didn't say the images were "phony" or changed in any way. I said you > were an idiot, a troll or insane for thinking that rocks and dirt are > little people in little houses. Do you go out in your backyard and talk > to the little dirt people? > > If you are serious, you need professional help... I put my Google Blog out where the pictures can be seen by anyone that cares enough to look. My enlargements of the JPL photographs are there for you, and others, to see. The enlarged crops of the JPL photographs speak for themselves. http://stardot.blogspot.com/ tomcat I now have a dozen pictures of Mars posted on my Google Blog. See for yourself what I have been talking about. The pictures have been enlarged, brightened to erase shadows, and cropped to make them manageable. (Nothing has been added, superimposed, or faked.) One of the pictures looks to me like a Vertical Tubular Rocket in flight! Do Martians have 'ballistic missiles'? See for yourself. http://stardot.blogspot.com/ I was asked to make these pictures available by the 'you got to show me crowd'. Well, here they are. tomcat tomcat, As I've told you before, I think you'll have to restart this level of a sub-topic related to small Martian life as scaled to suit their environment over, this time keeping it posted entirely out of the sci.space forums that seriously suck and blow, whereas that's about the one and only way your little Martians are ever going to stand a chance. Seems that sci.space.whatever or just sci.whatever Usenet is extremely bigoted, not only intellectually but biologically bigoted against Martians or any other ETs being of anything other than 6'3" worth of their being white and extremely Jewish humans, exactly like their Third Reich collaboration partners in crimes against humanity have had it planned all along, the only exceptions being if you're unusually blond and blue eyed. Personally, I think your photo-enlargements are terrific. I can't say there's enough of an artificial set of patterns as to further substantiate the claim of there being a small scaled version of other life to behold, but that doesn't mean that it's not there, as it could be yet another 10 fold smaller yet. Even Sol-633 that really looks interesting isn't at best depicting of whatever may have once upon a time represented a small community that's been long sub-frozen, TBI and rather easily pulverised for the last few million years. Perhaps sticking with the really big volcano sites is where the last vestiges of Mars life managed to have survived, as being worthy of our time and expertise of seeing if there's any remainders of Martian life to behold. Without an artificial resource of applied energy, it's down to being geothermal or nothing. - "If you're not looking for the truth, you will not find it." -Brad Guth "To believe with certainty we must begin with doubting." -Stanislaus I "The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but having new eyes." -Marcel Proust "Truth is given, not to be contemplated, but to be done. Life is an action, not a thought." -F.W. Robertson ~ Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree far beyond; WAR is WAR, thus "in war there are no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of honest folks having to deal with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever the supposed rules, such as our resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush). Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm > tomcat, > As I've told you before, I think you'll have to restart this level of a [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > "If you're not looking for the truth, you will not find it." > -Brad Guth > Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac: > http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm > The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) > http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm > Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS > http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm The 'quiet' of the usenet is hard for me to understand. My enlarged, shadowless crops of the JPL Spirit Rover pictures are for real. I am, myself, shocked to find human looking beings in these enlargements. I believe that they are alive, not artifacts of a dead civilization. Are the humans the primary beings of Mars or are they outcasts, with beings more alien actually running the Martian civilization? I deliberately listed the Sol numbers and camera used so that people can look them up for themselves on the JPL web site. They will need to enlarge them and remove shadows using brightness and contrast to see what I show on Star Dot Blog. Once again, the Blog photos are JPEGs of greatly enlarged (resized) bitmaps, with shadows erased by using contrast and brightness controls, then cropped so that only a small portion of the original JPL picture is shown. I am waiting for comments, but so far, only one man of courage has responded: Brad Guth. Another person said he looked but didn't see anything. I can only guess that person is worried about the . . . MIB. Brad, however, isn't afraid of anything. I hope he has a good antivirus on his computer -- and a firewall besides. Star Dot Blog: http://stardot.blogspot.com/ tomcat << I am waiting for comments, but so far, only one man of courage has responded: Brad Guth. Another person said he looked but didn't see anything. I can only guess that person is worried about the . . . MIB. Brad, however, isn't afraid of anything. I hope he has a good antivirus on his computer -- and a firewall besides. >> Why do you say these things ?? Why do you intentionally warp things without any provocation ?? I am not afraid of any people and what I said was based on the pictures you posted, I do not see anything except Mars dirt and rocks. > << I am waiting for comments, but so far, only one man of courage has > responded: Brad Guth. Another person said he looked but didn't see [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I am not afraid of any people and what I said was based on the pictures > you posted, I do not see anything except Mars dirt and rocks. Perhaps I seemed overbearing because I have seen the pictures on Star Dot Blog full size on a high resolution screen. The pictures I uploaded to Star Dot Blog were small JPEGs because only small JPEGs can be uploaded. Full size bitmaps, at nearly 10 megabytes, enable you to see what are unquestionably people in several of the pictures, right down to their facial expressions and arm bands. One even has a gun like device on his hip. Some of the strange Martian animals, which look a bit like black rocks, have fur which can be seen on their edges -- but only with megabytes of enlargement. The JPEGs are only 20KB or so, which is quite a limitation. You need to find the pictures on the JPL web site, download them into photo software, and further enlarge them using contrast to erase shadows. The photo software can be the standard Wang or Kodak that Windows provides. To alter contrast, however, may require store bought software. I now have a dozen of the pictures on Star Dot Blog ( http://stardot.blogspot.com/ ) and certain ones, like the 'cat' picture, show up nicely on the JPEGs. tomcat I have put some new pictures on the Star Dot Blog. URL: http://stardot.blogspot.com/ tomcat tomcat; Perhaps you can become a wee bit more specific as to the sol-### image and as to the location within that image as to whatever's depicting "human looking beings in these enlargements". I believe that I have an open mindset with a somewhat better than average deductive observationology imagination. However, if there has been life of most any such small scale still requires a few associated patterns that are not going to be so natural looking. Some of the images have included portions suggesting upon what's potentially artificial. If there's still viable life to being had, in which case there also needs to be at least a trace thermal signature. Not that Martians being quite small and cold-blooded is out of the question. However, do any of the instruments include a touch of IR capability. If we're to be looking at the remains of some past form of Martian life, as this is where it'll take some extra careful look-see efforts in order to extrapolate as to whatever could have once been Martian life. Since Mars hasn't always been geologically dead, past life is most likely, however existing surface life upon Mars isn't all that likely, at least not without some degree of applied technology. Exoskeletal forms of life might have stood the best chance of their having survived the longest, and there's certainly no good reason why an exoskeletal can't be somewhat human looking. Of sufficiently deep underground life on Mars is about the one and only alternative I see any hope for. The likes of "Secret237@Verizon.net" isn't the only other person having a bit of trouble, as I'm still not focused upon whatever it is that looks miniature human like. Is this a test? Since optical 2D CCD images are often so limited. Instead of sharing multiple such images within your Star Dot Blog: http://stardot.blogspot.com/ ; just offer us the one best example you've got, and then become as specific as you can manage, as to pointing out whatever there is to see. - "If you're not looking for the truth, you will not find it." -Brad Guth "To believe with certainty we must begin with doubting." -Stanislaus I "The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but having new eyes." -Marcel Proust "Truth is given, not to be contemplated, but to be done. Life is an action, not a thought." -F.W. Robertson ~ Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree far beyond; WAR is WAR, thus "in war there are no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason of honest folks having to deal with the likes of others that haven't been playing by whatever the supposed rules, such as our resident warlord(GW Bush). Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm |
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