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Space Forum / Shuttle / September 2004



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Radical suggestion, pie in the sky dept...

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Brian Gaff - 17 Sep 2004 11:04 GMT
You know, flitting back to the  first words of many people who have had
their first time in space, it seems to have been a profound experience for
many of them. They nearly all, say things like, It makes you realise we are
all on this planet together, and how small it is in the vastness of space..
etc etc.

This seems genuine, and i sort of wondered if it might not be a good thing
that anyone who is going to be in a position of authority in this world,
should not have to spend a couple of days in orbit, preferably as far up as
is safe from the radiation point of view. We do need a global view on this
planet.

Brian

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Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
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Peter Harding - 17 Sep 2004 15:29 GMT
> We do need a global view on this
> planet.

No you don't. You just need enough votes to keep your job through the
next election.

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Brian Gaff - 17 Sep 2004 18:16 GMT
> > We do need a global view on this
> > planet.
>
> No you don't. You just need enough votes to keep your job through the
> next election.

Blimey, you are more cynical than I am!

Brian

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graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
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Alan Erskine - 17 Sep 2004 16:37 GMT
> You know, flitting back to the  first words of many people who have had
> their first time in space, it seems to have been a profound experience for
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Brian

A wonderful idea.  Many astronauts/cosmonauts have said they've never seen
any borders while in space; that borders are made by people.

I wholeheartedly agree.  "Pie-in-the-sky" it might be, but I wholeheartedly
agree with your suggestion.

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Alan Erskine
We can get people to the Moon in five years,
not the fifteen GWB proposes.
Give NASA a real challenge
Alanterskine1@bigpond.com

Derek Lyons - 17 Sep 2004 21:44 GMT
>A wonderful idea.  Many astronauts/cosmonauts have said they've never seen
>any borders while in space; that borders are made by people.

People with no influence and no real hope of ever obtaining any can
make a wide of of statements regardless of their relationship to
reality.

D.
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Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

Little Lott , Tn Joe - 18 Sep 2004 05:00 GMT
this alan guy is jackass i hope all of you
email him and tell him he is a jackass.

From: "Alan Erskine" <alanerskine1@bigpond.com>
>Hurricane Ivan Is A Good Boy It Did Reach Land This Is
>Good News PLS. Email Me With Your Good News.

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Alan Erskine
We can get people to the Moon in five years,
not the fifteen GWB proposes.
Give NASA a real challenge
Alanterskine1@bigpond.com

From: "Alan Erskine" <alanerskine1@bigpond.com>
Newsgroups: alt.firefighters
Subject: Hurricane Ivan Is A
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Terrell Miller - 19 Sep 2004 13:59 GMT
> A wonderful idea.  Many astronauts/cosmonauts have said they've never seen
> any borders while in space; that borders are made by people.

you can't see tularemia, anthrax, or radiation from space either. That
doesn't mean they don't exist, are not important, or can be "visualized"
away.

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" A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures."
-- Daniel Webster

Tim K. - 19 Sep 2004 21:46 GMT
> > A wonderful idea.  Many astronauts/cosmonauts have said they've never seen
> > any borders while in space; that borders are made by people.
>
> you can't see tularemia, anthrax, or radiation from space either. That
> doesn't mean they don't exist, are not important, or can be "visualized"
> away.

That "swoosh" was his point flying over your head.  He clearly identified it
as "pie in the sky".
EAC - 21 Sep 2004 17:21 GMT
"Brian Gaff" <Briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bFy2d.18338$U04.15406@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> > They nearly all, say things like, It makes you realise we are
> > all on this planet together,

Correct. We are all the proud citizen of Starship Earth, whose goal is
to seek old life and old civilizations around the cosmos, striving to
put right to what once went wrong. (Probably the unofficial motto of
"Enterprise", "hoping each time that its next warp, will be the warp
home" probably belong to "Star Trek Voyager").

Everyone in the ancient world realize that!

The problem is that, many 'educated' people these days don't realize
that. But don't worry, they are only a small part of the population.
The rest of the population is too stupid to be 'educated' and by
therefore is more flexible and capable of working together for their
own benefit.

> > and how small it is in the vastness of space.. etc etc.

Incorrect. Earth might be a relatively small planet (in comparison to
others), but it's destined to rule the cosmos, those who kept saying
that Earth is small have a negative propaganda to made Earthlings felt
small. Interestingly, some of these same people also tend to glorify
extra terrestrial lifeforms.

Contra-Earth and Pro-ET?

> > This seems genuine, and i sort of wondered if it might not be a good thing
> > that anyone who is going to be in a position of authority in this world,
> > should not have to spend a couple of days in orbit, preferably as far up as
> > is safe from the radiation point of view.

Isn't a satellite photo would have done enough? If it's zero gravity,
then a ride of the vomit commit looking at the satellite photos.

Heck, the treatment that astronauts currently received in orbit isn't
even worthy for a human, much less for a prisoner, but you're
suggesting sending a leader into orbit? Why is that some people had
the fetish of torturing their leaders?

Besides, most (all?) leaders of the 'official' countries in the world
are nothing more but puppets, they were put in charge not because they
were elected by the citizens (the whole thing about elections are the
people's way of voicing is nothing more but a scam), but because they
were willing to be puppets. Of course, if they rebel, they have to
suffer the consequences. That's why it doesn't matter even if a leader
gone into orbit, because he wasn't the one in charge in the first
place anyway.

Bush is nothing more puppet, the same goes for Kerry, the same goes
for Saddam, and so on. It doesn't matter if you put a puppet in orbit,
he still would do what the puppet master wishes.

Now, the ideal leader is a person who acted on his own and has the
mentality of a military general. The best leaders in the past thousand
of years are always military generals who acted on their own.

> > We do need a global view on this planet.

We need to think more like a human race, and in the same time we would
also need to think that we aren't alone in this Earth and there are
people that swore to lead us astray.

Things to do in the next few hundreds years:

- Returning back to the originial state of what being human is all
about, eliminating all of the brainwashing our enemy has been given.

- Recognise the enemy.

- Gang up on the enemy.

- Defeat the enemy!

- Colonize the universe! So that our numbers would be like as the
stars in the sky and the sand on the shoreline!

> > Brian

> A wonderful idea.  Many astronauts/cosmonauts have said they've never
> seen any borders while in space; that borders are made by people.

Actually, the majority of the populations do NOT care about borders!
That's the way it been for thousands of years. Sure that they might
have decided to draw a line of what theirs and what is not theirs,
after all, it would be kinda funny to have your neighbour picking
things from your own lawn.

But in general, in the ancient days, the land was practically
borderless. That's why they created the Great Wall of China, because
the land was so borderless, the enemy can come in quite easily. Note:
The Great Wall of China by the way can't be seen from space by the
naked eyes, and that's a confirmation from a Chinese astronaut.

The people don't care about the borders, however, there's certain
group of people (or maybe non-people) who wished that the human race
is divided. In the ancient days, Earth was practically almost
borderless, but only recently in the last few hundred years Earth has
more and more borders.

That's why you will always see new countries being liberated (a.k.a.
divided from the old country and then come into 'their' hand)! It's
one of 'their' plans divide the human race.

Of course, 'they' will then claim that the negativity in regarding
borders is because due to human nature (it isn't, 'they' were the ones
who caused it), and this kind of thing must stop.

Then 'they' sing the song "Imagine" and say "Lets us all be friends".
Bruce Palmer - 17 Sep 2004 20:12 GMT
> You know, flitting back to the  first words of many people who have had
> their first time in space, it seems to have been a profound experience for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> is safe from the radiation point of view. We do need a global view on this
> planet.

I like this idea, Brian.  It will never happen but I still like it.
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Ray Schmitt - 18 Sep 2004 17:07 GMT
> You know, flitting back to the  first words of many people who have had
> their first time in space, it seems to have been a profound experience for
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Brian
>snip

NASA has already tried this. Senator Jake Garn (Utah) flew on STS-51D
(flight #16) and Rep. Bill Nelson (Florida) flew on STS-61C (flight #24),
both flights predating the Challenger disaster on flight #25. And, of
course, John Glenn returned to space at age 77 on STS-95 (flight #92 lauched
29Oct1998). Certainly these three gentlemen each qualify as "someone who is
going to be in a position of authority..."  Garn and Nelson were on the
committees that controlled NASA's budget. And John Glenn is John Glenn.

Don't know how much effect these "guest astronaut" rides had on NASA or on
our manned spaceflight program. Certainly the individuals involved got a big
thrill, but I doubt that this resulted in any significant benefit in the
long run. NASA still lives a hand-to-mouth budgetary existence.

Later
Ray Schmitt
dave schneider - 20 Sep 2004 21:13 GMT
> [...] Certainly these three gentlemen each qualify as "someone who is
> going to be in a position of authority..."  Garn and Nelson were on the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> thrill, but I doubt that this resulted in any significant benefit in the
> long run. NASA still lives a hand-to-mouth budgetary existence.

I thought these were considered "payoffs" for services already
rendered.  Glenn had already retired from the Senate, and given up
hopes of a runt at the Oval Office, IIRC.

/dps
bob haller - 20 Sep 2004 22:26 GMT
>I thought these were considered "payoffs" for services already
>rendered.  Glenn had already retired from the Senate, and given up
>hopes of a runt at the Oval Office, IIRC.

what if Glenns shuttle had been the last one? Would someone like him dying
effected the program more?
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
Ray Schmitt - 20 Sep 2004 23:56 GMT
> > [...] Certainly these three gentlemen each qualify as "someone who is
> > going to be in a position of authority..."  Garn and Nelson were on the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> /dps

True enough. That's one way to look at the "guest astronaut" effort during
the pre-Challenger era.

IMHO these folks flew on the shuttle as part of a larger NASA strategy to
advance the myth that the shuttle was an "operational" system similar to a
commercial airliner with sufficiently high reliability and safety features
to allow non-astronauts with minimal training to experience the thrill of
orbital flight.

Of course, 28 Jan 1986 changed all this when the Challenger crew, including
the "Teacher-in-Space," perished in a launch failure. In the aftermath
Reagan ended the guest astronaut program and required NASA to get
presidential approval for non-astronauts  to fly on the shuttle. Seats on
the orbiter would be limited to NASA employees, military astronauts, and to
qualified mission and payload specialists.

Clinton agreed to lift President Kennedy's ban on John Glenn and allowed the
most famous of the Mercury Original Seven to ride the shuttle in 1998.

In this post-Columbia era, I think we've seen the last of the guest
astronauts on the shuttle.  Looks like purchasing a seat on a Soyuz flight
is the only way for non-astronauts/non-cosmonauts to experience true orbital
conditions.

Later
Ray Schmitt
Tim K. - 19 Sep 2004 03:39 GMT
Nick Hull - 21 Sep 2004 12:11 GMT
> You know, flitting back to the  first words of many people who have had
> their first time in space, it seems to have been a profound experience for
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Brian

Sending politicians into space is a good idea.  Bringing them back is
not.

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Tim K. - 24 Sep 2004 00:03 GMT
> Sending politicians into space is a good idea.  Bringing them back is
> not.

heh, nice!
 
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