Supermassive black hole experiment
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Willie.Mookie@gmail.com - 26 Aug 2008 03:30 GMT The 4 million solar mass - supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy, spins at 37% the speed of light, and is 30,000 light years away.
It is possible to send signals around that object in a way that returns a portion of the signal back to Earth at a points in time earlier as well as later than it left. That is some of the radiant energy arriving at the black hole forms a CTL path implementing a reversed time link with nothing more than a radio telescope. With such a setup it should be possible to send signals back and forth across the cosmos in real time! This allows tele-robotics and telepresence to operate instantly across the cosmos with technology only marginally in advance of our own.
That is, a small portion of a powerful radio pulse sent from Earth should be capable of being detected back on Earth at the same time, as well as shortly before and shortly after it was sent, since a portion of the energy travels through many paths around the black hole.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fytriKJ8xhE
http://www.geocities.com/theophysics/tipler-rotating-cylinders.pdf
Using 1 micron wavelengths, and using emitters locate 1,000 AU distance from the center of the sun, to use gravity lensing to create an effective collimated emitter 20 million km in diameter to illuminate the 20 million km diameter black hole 284 quadrillion km away.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/phyopt/Raylei.html
sin theta_r = 1.22 lambda/diam2
lambda = 1e-6 m diam1 = 2e+10 m
sin theta_r = 6.1e-15
diam2 = L * sin theta_r
L = 2.84e+20 m
diam2 = 2.84e+20 * 6.1e-15 = 46,557 meters
So, using a system described here, its possible to transmit a signal to a particular spot on the surface of the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy, and receive a signal back from a similarly sized spot.
In this way a 'negative delay loop' can be introduced into ANY telecommunications link, providing instantaneous communications across ANY distance.
Martha Adams - 26 Aug 2008 04:33 GMT > The 4 million solar mass - supermassive black hole at the center of > our galaxy, spins at 37% the speed of light, and is 30,000 light years [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > telecommunications link, providing instantaneous communications across > ANY distance. The topic behind *this* topic is the one that interests me. It is, this is a great idea but in my view, the place to explore space from, is *space*. First, get those settlements out there, a working human commercial structure and ecology.
*Then* from a far better place than down here in the bottom of Terra's gravity well, start exploring space. Exploring conceptually; thru instruments; and directly thru exploring humans (who are out there looking for among other things, new sites for settlements).
And from that environment, topics such as Mookie's fast communication scheme, become no longer abstract but immediate, relevant, and practical; maybe even necessary.
So while I like this idea lots, I feel there's a thing we have to do *first*. Namely, those human settlements off-Terra.
Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Aug 25]
Willie.Mookie@gmail.com - 26 Aug 2008 04:49 GMT A time-telephone is instrumental in creating a Dirac like impulse function in human capacity around 2040 known as the technological singularity - where an infinite amount of progress is compressed into a finite time.
That is, information from all forward times becomes available at some finite point in time, and is usefully organized in a computer data bank. Such telephones are possible theoretically. How to reduce them to practice?
haha.. I think I have the answer. At least for us.
We'll figure out the details by putting a few good grad students on it for a few months, and maybe scare up a few telescopes to do the experiment. It will put FFT analyzers to good use, and should be capable of being completed in a matter of minutes - and may even provide an answer to SETI. There's no encyclopedia galactica spanning the galaxy because all the wise guys know you communicate through the black hole at the center - something like that. And when we set up our own time telephone, maybe we'll get someone to break in, or tap us on the shoulder so to speak! lol. Even if they're in the distant future or past.
A positive result with a simple CTL loop would likely produce a dedicated time signalling facility, of ever increasing bandwidth. It would be great to have a time telephone. I wouldn't have to wait 10 weeks after I order furniture to have it arrive. In fact, the furniture could be on its way as I leave for the store and be setup by the time I return haha..
I just sent an e-mail to time researcher, Ron Mallett, and one of his RAs at the University of Connecticut - based on my comments here on usenet.
I will report any progress in the future! lol.
Here's what it says in part;
Ron, Marshall,
I was looking at the possibility of having sun orbiting power satellites to beam energy to laser light sail driven starships by way of gravity lensing around the sun from a great distance away. I was wondering how far one might project useful energy.
Then I was wondering about the sensitivity of a telescope that used the sun's gravity field as a lens.
Then I started thinking about the 4 million solar mass - supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy.
The object spins once every 11 minutres. That means the 23 million km diameter sphere spins with an equatorial speed at 37% the speed of light. It is also approximately 30,000 light years away.
As Ron knows, it is possible to send signals around that object in a way that returns a portion of the signal back to Earth at a points in time earlier as well as later than it left. That is some of the radiant energy arriving at the black hole forms a CTL path implementing a reversed time link with nothing more than a radio telescope.
With such a setup it should be possible to send signals back and forth across the cosmos in real time! This allows tele-robotics and telepresence to operate instantly across the cosmos with technology only marginally in advance of our own. Real time data links with Mars for example and obviously - beyond.
That is, a small portion of a powerful radio pulse sent from Earth should be capable of being detected back on Earth at the same time, as well as shortly before and shortly after it was sent, since a portion of the energy travels through many paths around the black hole.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fytriKJ8xhE
http://www.geocities.com/theophysics/tipler-rotating-cylinders.pdf
Using 1 micron wavelengths, and using emitters locate 1,000 AU distance from the center of the sun, to use gravity lensing to create an effective collimated emitter 20 million km in diameter to illuminate the 20 million km diameter black hole 284 quadrillion km away.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/phyopt/Raylei.html
sin theta_r = 1.22 lambda/diam1
lambda = 1e-6 m diam1 = 2e+10 m
sin theta_r = 6.1e-15
diam2 = L * sin theta_r
L = 2.84e+20 m
diam2 = 2.84e+20 * 6.1e-15 = 46,557 meters
So, using a system described here, its possible to transmit a signal to a particular spot only 46.6 km in diameter on the surface of the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy, and receive a signal back from a similarly sized spot.
Knowing the physical characteristics of this object it should be possible to send signals through CTL pathways efficiently, and receieve an instantaneous confirmation of that fact!
In this way a 'negative delay loop' can be introduced into ANY telecommunications link, providing instantaneous communications across ANY distance over the time frame the supermassive black hole exists.
It is also possible to signal from any point in time to any other in this interval!
Can we do this with conventional radio telescopes?
The 1,000 ft (304.8 m) Arecibo dish operating in the water hole - 21 cm - wavelength - can project a spot at 30,000 light years of;
http://www.setileague.org/general/waterhol.htm
diam2 = L * 1.22 lambda/diam1
lambda = 0.21 m diam1 = 304.8m L = 2.84e+20 m = 30,000 ly
diam2 = 25.21 light years
ONLY A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE ENERGY FALLS ON THE 23 MILLION KM DIAMETER BLACK HOLE.
Using a VLBI setup with a 10,000 km separation
lambda = 0.21 m diam1 = 1e+7 m L = 2.84e+20 m = 30,000 ly 7.2 million km
ALL THE ENERGY FALLS ON A SPECIFIC SPOT ON THE 23 MILLION KM DIAMETER BLACK HOLE - WHICH MEANS CONVENTIONAL VLBI TECHINQUES USING 21 CM WAVELENGTHS SHOULD BE CAPABLE OF CREATING AND DETECTING CTL LIGHT PATHS AROUND THE GALAXY'S CORE!
This provides not only important scientific information, but will also provide profound technological capabilities.
William Mook,
Willie.Mookie@gmail.com - 26 Aug 2008 14:56 GMT Light contains energy. The speed of light is slowed in a gravity field due to massenergy. Light or radio waves, therefore when added to the environment of the ergosphere, should be able to produce nonlinear optical effects.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=information-in-the-hologr-2003-08
http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.cfm?fa=Products.ViewIssuePreview&ARTICLEID_CHA R=0E90201A-2B35-221B-6BBEB44296C90AAD
http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.asp?showID=11140
In short, the physics of light transport through the ergosphere can be recast in the mathematics of nonlinear optics. That is, in the ergosphere of a spinning black hole, radio or light energy should be capable of generating a conjugate beam to itself - extracting significant energy from the ergosphere itself - making a signal that is easily detectable.
http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/6/85-100.pdf
The ergosphere around the equator of the spinning black hole is therefore illuminated in such a way that the signal is preferentially emitted conjugate to the incoming beam. The physics of the Penrose Process allow the emitted conjugate signal to possess far more power than the arriving signal.
The next challenge is the arrival time of the emitted signal. We want in our first experiment, to cause the emitted signal to arrive at the point of origin (Earth/Sol) precisely when the illuminating signal is sent. This means causing the signal to be emitted 30,000 years before it arrives making for a quick experimental confirmation at Earth/Sol..
Now the math says it might be possible to do this. To send a beam to a black hole that causes it to echo a more powerful pulse directly at Earth/Sol and do so in such a way as to have it arrive at the time the pulse was crated.
To understand how this is possible, consider that light can orbit a stationary black hole for long periods of time. At a radius where the escape velocity is 70.7% the speed of light - orbital velocity is equal to the speed of light. So radio waves or light waves that arrive tangent to the surface at that radius - will continue in orbit around the black hole a long long time.
This is an important feature, so lets look at it in more detail.
Imagine you are being lowered into this supermassive blackhole, standing so your feet are pointed toward the center, and your head toward the starrs lowering yourself to the center feet first.. You have a laser pointer and you're pointing it horizontally as you descend.
As you get closer to the event horizon the laser beam gets bent more and more around the horizon of the black hole. Now, as you fall, the escape velocity at that radius rises, and so too the orbital velocity. When you are at a radius where the escape velocity is 70.7% of the speed of light, the orbital velocity is the speed of light. A laser beam directed toward the horizontal at this radius, will circulate around the black hole, forever - in a classical stationary sense.
Now consider that a spinning black hole drags spacetime around with it, and creates an ergosphere - which can be manipulated by structuring the incoming signal so as to create a pulse at some later or earlier time using the energy of the ergosphere itself.
In this way, an experiment can be done, and pehaps a new technical capacity can be developed to send signals through time.
Willie.Mookie@gmail.com - 27 Aug 2008 00:14 GMT Because the ergosphere around a spinning black hole involves turning spacetime itself into a nonlinear optical media the conjugate wave solutions that are possible in mundane nonlinear media actually have reversed time terms in them in dealing with ergospheres around spinning black holes. This allows conjugate beams to arrive at the same or nearly the same time the original beam is formed. Not only that,but the ability to tap the energy of a spiinning black hole by dropping particles into the ergosphere - including microwave photons - permits echoes to be far more powerful than the original pulse.
Thus a black hole appears capable of returning pulses powerful enough and timely enough to do experiments real-time with today's radio telescopes.
That is, it appears possible to contemplate experiments done with radio telescope arrays today that actually provide important experimental feedback on quantum gravity.
Furthermore, a successful research program, may have important technical consequences, such as delay free instantaneous communications over large distances, as well as the ability to signal through time and across dimensions of time, opening up new avenues of exploration and discovery..
Objects can orbit a non-spinning black hole near the speed of light. The orbits are non keplerian, non newtonian - and use the einstein theory of general relativity to predict movements.
http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/orbits/
The point of this description in the present context is to point out that a light beam can be made to circulate near the event horizon and then come out again. Since the transit time is about 4 minutes for the black hole at the center of our galaxy, it takes about 4 billion orbits to equal 30,000 years - the distance the black hole is from Earth.
To get a delay like this, all one has to do is illuminate the precise region at the appropriate position tangent to the event horiizon at the appropriate altitude above the event horizon.
Of course we want the conjugate beam to emerge 30,000 years before it arrives, so that when it arrives back at Earth, the experimenters are still at the radio telescope listening for the pulse.
To do this bit of magic requires that the black hole be spinning. This creates what is known as an ergosphere above the equator of the black hole's event horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergosphere http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/OrbitsAroundASpinningBlackHole/
Here spacetime itself has the potential to become a nonlinear optical medium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_optical_medium
These media change the speed of light in the medium as the intensity of light changes.
In an ergosphere, the speed of light does not change, but the speed of light realtive to the external universe changes - and that variation itself changes with the energy contained in the light itself- allowing the formulation of light transport in the ergosphere to be recast in nonlinear optics terms.
When one does this it is quite easy to see that illumination of a particular region of space around the event horizon of a black hole, with appropriately configured signals, results in amplified signals being detected at the point of origin at times before or simultaneously with the emissoin of the illuminating pulse at the point of origin.
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