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Space Forum / Space Policy / August 2008Star Trek-like 'warp drive' theorized
See: http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Star_Trek-like_warp_drive_theorized_999.html Great. Now lets see them demonstrate a prototype. Maybe then, someone might take it seriously. > See: > > http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Star_Trek-like_warp_drive_theorized_999.html > > Great. Now lets see them demonstrate a prototype. Maybe then, > someone might take it seriously. Too bad it's based on String Theory which itself hasn't been confirmed that it even exists. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> Great. Now lets see them demonstrate a prototype. Maybe then, >> someone might take it seriously. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > Last time I heard of a warp drive theory using that concept, it required the energy output of a good-sized star to make it work. Pat >>> Great. Now lets see them demonstrate a prototype. Maybe then, >>> someone might take it seriously. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Last time I heard of a warp drive theory using that concept, it required > the energy output of a good-sized star to make it work. Well they've now cut it down to the size of Jupiter, I believe, but that still leaves one hell of a storage problem. The biggest drawback is that the theory is actually based on non-existent physics, so it's next to worthless. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > >>> Great. Now lets see them demonstrate a prototype. Maybe then, > >>> someone might take it seriously. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The biggest drawback is that the theory is actually based on non-existent > physics, so it's next to worthless. A warp is esentially a Black Hole with negative mass around it. That is how the solution panns. To get an idea of the forces involved let us consider the Schwarzchild radius of the Earth. It is 9mm. The S radius of Jupiter is about 3m. You can look at the forces. I DID say that building an elevator to GEO was child's play. As far as non existant Physics goes, we still don't know what negative mass is. We know it is needed for a Warp Drive, but we don't know what it is, how to get it or even if we did get it whether it would be contollable. - Ian Parker > Well they've now cut it down to the size of Jupiter, I believe, but that > still leaves one hell of a storage problem. > > The biggest drawback is that the theory is actually based on non-existent > physics, so it's next to worthless. > But if we use a reverse tachyon field...tie the gaseous core reactor power output directly into the main deflector array... connect the plus to the minus, and the minus to the plus...IT COULD WORK! (cut to painting of Hugo Gernsback on the wall smiling maniacally.) Pat > > Well they've now cut it down to the size of Jupiter, I believe, but that > > still leaves one hell of a storage problem. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to the minus, and the minus to the plus...IT COULD WORK! > (cut to painting of Hugo Gernsback on the wall smiling maniacally.) The basic fact of tachyons is that two types of field are produced. There is a superluminal field which is not localised and therefore useless for the transfer of information, and there is a sub luminal condensaton. This sub luminal condensation in fact takes the form of a familiar field. A discussion is given here http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.physics/browse_frm/thread/aedf78d39742e070/ f7d4f0b3c9ae707f?hl=en&lnk=st&q=#f7d4f0b3c9ae707f BTW Academic Physicists are accused of not having open minds. Well the rewriting of the who;e of Elementary Particle Physics, which is what this might imply is to me a VERY open mind. In NO case is there negative mass suitable for warp. All fields have positive energy. - Ian Parker On 12 Aug, 04:38, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote: > See: > > http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Star_Trek-like_warp_drive_theoriz... > > Great. Now lets see them demonstrate a prototype. Maybe then, > someone might take it seriously. I recall that there has been discussion on an elevator to GEO. Building this would be child's play compared with metric engineering. I have not begun to discuss FTL paradoxes. I am just thinkinng about the sheer magnitude of the forces involved. BTW - Can anyone explain to me why antigravity research is secret in view of what GTR says. - Ian Parker On 12 Aug, 04:38, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote: > See: > > http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Star_Trek-like_warp_drive_theoriz... > > Great. Now lets see them demonstrate a prototype. Maybe then, > someone might take it seriously. I recall that there has been discussion on an elevator to GEO. Building this would be child's play compared with metric engineering. I have not begun to discuss FTL paradoxes. I am just thinkinng about the sheer magnitude of the forces involved. BTW - Can anyone explain to me why antigravity research is secret in view of what GTR says. - Ian Parker ========================= The warp drive research has been around for a while. I believe NASA once had an "Advanced Propulsion" section. Catherine Asaro participated in that. But like so much else these days, the research was ended "to save money." I think metric engineering will have to wait until a good research and business oriented culture develops in the Belt. We look up and we see the sky, and for most us, that's as far as our minds can reach (or farther, maybe). But the Belters will look out and see all of Space out there, and they will realize they have reason but not yet the knowhow, to reach it. Which they will respond to, by finding the knowhow; which will be some sort of a metric drive. In my view, a metric drive is a good research topic *right now* but too many of us (I refer especially to those men in Washington) have too narrow and short a view to think about such far-out (pun not intended, but it fits) ideas. Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Aug 12] > On 12 Aug, 04:38, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Aug 12] I don't think there is a negative view at all. For both Warp Drive and Wormholes you need a) Enormous forces. A GEO elevator will have somewhat less that 11km/s between its top and bottom. Anything metric approaces c. b) Negative mass. If I thought it existed I would be dead scared. Negative mass is the stuff that drives Inflation. I do't think for theoretical reasons that negative mass is controllable. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.physics/browse_frm/thread/b26da0bde3697754/ 7fdcf624b1b714a1?hl=en&lnk=st&q=#7fdcf624b1b714a1 - Ian Parker On Aug 11, 10:38 pm, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote: > See: > > http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Star_Trek-like_warp_drive_theoriz... > > Great. Now lets see them demonstrate a prototype. Maybe then, > someone might take it seriously. The device you are referring to is now called the "Alcubierre Drive," after the Mexican theoretical physicist who first outlined its properties, Dr. Miguel Alcubierre. See: http://lifeboat.com/ex/bios.miguel.alcubierre On Aug 12, 6:17 am, rchard...@gmail.com wrote: > On Aug 11, 10:38 pm, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > after the Mexican theoretical physicist who first outlined its > properties, Dr. Miguel Alcubierre. See:http://lifeboat.com/ex/bios.miguel.alcubierre A drive that apparently has some pretty hefty energy requirements: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive#Energy_requirement On Aug 12, 6:34 pm, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote: > On Aug 12, 6:17 am, rchard...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive#Energy_requirement from the Alcubierre link: : Miguel's solitary wave solutions of the Einstein : field equations offer the unexpected possibility [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : non-locality would ultimately require abandoning : the mathematical structure of relativity. The discussion about aether alludes to the plasma-like nature of "massless" warp drives; there's a whole science out there that's not being discussed that refers to certain per- turbations existing that resonate the local spacetime that are in perfect spatial gradient phase w.r.t. the "current" spacetime sheet. The word "spacetime" is an Einsteinian description from GR that bears no distinction from either "space or "time". Thus two SPATIAL events can be said to occur some DISTANCE dxdydz apart while two temporal events become separated by some time interval "dt". For what it's worth: According to the SPACETIME definition, ds^2 = c^2dt^2 - dx^2 - dy^2 - dz^2 the local geodyne becomes the space-time metric of "observation". However, this value represents the UNCOMPRESSED value of ds^2 in the current geodyne. The SPEED OF LIGHT must represent a different value for "c" in the COMPRESSED geodyne, which is represented by an aether that can only be measured as a function of "compressed" spacetime. The only route of access to this compressed spacetime is through the action of dipolar or quadrupolar NMR. (Just my two cents) American > On Aug 12, 6:34 pm, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Here's a link to their abstract and pdf-- http://arxiv.org/abs/0807.1957 Apparently it's yet another modification of the Alcubierre Drive. crs |
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