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Space Forum / Space History / July 2008TV afterApollo 11
The Apollo 11 Slow-scan TV and the conversion is pretty well known. What about the TV on the later Apollo landings? I know it was in color and transmitted 60 frames per second, alternating through red, blue, and green filters. Was a scan conversion made for broadcast on Earth? If so, would it be possible to make better video than is available on DVD if the pre-scan conversion data had been saved? And was the pre-conversion data saved?  SignatureReplace you know what by j to email Episode 8 of Conversations with Apollo interviews Stan Lebar, who worked on the development of the Apollo camera and he talks alot about television from the moon. Check it out at http://apollotalks.com On Jun 10, 12:27 pm, Jud McCranie <youknowwhat.mccra...@comcast.net> wrote: > The Apollo 11 Slow-scan TV and the conversion is pretty well known. > What about the TV on the later Apollo landings? I know it was in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > Replace you know what by j to email >Episode 8 of Conversations with Apollo interviews Stan Lebar, who >worked on the development of the Apollo camera and he talks alot about >television from the moon. Check it out at http://apollotalks.com That is very good and he talks about the conversion of the Apollo 11 TV, but it didn't answer my question about the conversion of the TV of the later Apollo missions. SignatureReplace you know what by j to email >Episode 8 of Conversations with Apollo interviews Stan Lebar, who >worked on the development of the Apollo camera and he talks alot about >television from the moon. Check it out at http://apollotalks.com ...So, did you ever get around to doing transcrips for those of us who speed-read? OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ >The Apollo 11 Slow-scan TV and the conversion is pretty well known. >What about the TV on the later Apollo landings? This http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ApolloTV-Acrobat7.pdf has a lot of information. SignatureReplace you know what by j to email Regarding your specific question about the field sequential recordings. I received the following from a Nasa employee while investigating other archived materials that shall remain nameless. First let me say that Slow-Scan TV was only used on Apollo 7, 8, 9 and 11. Apollo 10 and all subsequent missions through Skylab and Apollo-Soyuz used the Westinghouse Field Sequential Color cameras that operated at NTSC rates (525 lines, 30 frames per second). The Apollo 12 and 14 Lunar Module used a modified Westinghouse field sequential color camera. The quality of the television signal was degraded due to the need to filter out the LM voice and telemetry subcarriers. The Apollo 15, 16 and 17 lunar landing missions used the RCA GTCA cameras that used the same field sequential color standard used by the Westinghouse CSM color cameras. The quality was near broadcast standards due to the use of a special device that removed the LM and lunar rover subcarriers without degrading the television signal. The television signals on the Apollo 16 and 17 lunar landing missions was further improved by special processing by Image Transform. The NASA Johnson Spaceflight Center still has a video archive that has digital copies of the original field sequential color broadcasts by the Apollo, Skylab, and Shuttle missions over the years. Mark Gray of Spacecraft Films has produced an extensive DVD library of that contains all of the Apollo field sequential color broadcasts. I hope that answers your question. The reasons the networks don't use these? Laziness. Even Nasa tv doesn't show the cleaned up recordings on Sundays or anniversaries which is unforgivable I think. The following, Actual studio recorded conversation at Nasa TV control room, "Hey Bob, yeah pull out the analog Beta Sp master from 1983 and run it, yeah who cares...What? Run the new brilliant restored digital transfer with eye popping sound and color of the Apollo 15 Eva? No thanks Bob. That's just to much work to impress my grand kids." >>The Apollo 11 Slow-scan TV and the conversion is pretty well known. >>What about the TV on the later Apollo landings? > >This http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ApolloTV-Acrobat7.pdf has a lot of >information. > Regarding your specific question about the field sequential > recordings. I received the following from a Nasa employee [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > - Show quoted text - My father worked on the Westinghouse Lunar TV Camera. I don't think he could answer Jud's question but I'll pass it by him. It's always been a great source of pride for him. Dad retired from Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems ( NorthGrum bought Westinghouse Defense Electronics in the 90s) in April of 2005 after 42 years of service as an engineer. Gene DiGennaro Baltimore, Md. >My father worked on the Westinghouse Lunar TV Camera. I don't think he >could answer Jud's question but I'll pass it by him. It's always been >a great source of pride for him. ...The lunar aspect I can understand, but the color wheel technique? Had the FCC given See-BS the nod instead of the NBC/RCA single-gun system, we'd still be using monochrome monitors, and Hercules would still be in business making video cards that would keep monitor repairmen employed! OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ Actually we'd probably be using the PAL European color system circa 1966 which is far more accurate in terms of flesh tone because it looks real at 9000 Kelvin not just 6500K like on NTSC. Plus PAL tvs were generally hue accurate when produced. Nobody has a tint knob on a PAL tv. Only the new HDTV standard is better. Anyway that's rather OT to the sequential recordings. >>My father worked on the Westinghouse Lunar TV Camera. I don't think he >>could answer Jud's question but I'll pass it by him. It's always been [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > OM > On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:57 -0700 (PDT), Gene DiGennaro > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ > ]=====================================[ It was the low light camera and its associated integrated circuits that he worked on. I think the technology was either from the B-52 EVS system or it evolved into it. The B-52 EVS are the two chin pods seen under the nose of a BUFF. Gene > It was the low light camera and its associated integrated circuits > that he worked on. I think the technology was either from the B-52 EVS > system or it evolved into it. The B-52 EVS are the two chin pods seen > under the nose of a BUFF. > > http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/b52/ The two turrets house the: "AN/ASQ-151 electro-optical viewing system (EVS), which consists of the Raytheon AN/AAQ-6 Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) in the starboard turret and Northrop Grumman AN/AVQ-22 low-light-level television camera (LLTV) in the port turret" The images from the EVS are displayed on monochrome screens on the flight deck and on the lower deck." I don't think you'd need a low light level camera on the Moon; if anything, the glare of the sun would blind most television cameras...like happened on Apollo 12. Wikipedia has a article on the Apollo television cameras here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_TV_camera More historical goodies on the cameras here: http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-TVDocs.html Pat > > It was the low light camera and its associated integrated circuits > > that he worked on. I think the technology was either from the B-52 EVS [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Pat However it was a low light camera that initially attracted NASA. See page 19 of this article http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ApolloTV-Acrobat7.pdf Gene >I don't think you'd need a low light level camera on the Moon; if >anything, the glare of the sun would blind most television >cameras...like happened on Apollo 12. ...What was needed was an autoswitching system that went from the prone-to-death-if-you-blinked-at-it Vidicon imager and the BUFF tubes Gene mentions. The former would work provided the camera wasn't pointed at the Sun, while the latter would have been of more use in shadow, where due to the Sun's brightness the contrast differential was extreme to say the least. OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ The color-wheel cameras transmitted at 60 fields per second/30 frames per second. These were filtered in the sequence Red, Blue, Green. The signal was then sent to a custom built (by CBS Laboratories) video disk recorder which created a frame buffer of three fields for the later color fields. These were then matrixed together to form a full color image. A synchroniser on the color wheel allowed ground equipment to know which field color was being sent. A system of two 2" videotape machines were used to synch the incoming doppler affected signal to ground base time, allowing a fully NTSC compatible signal to be created. This was done prior to the color converter. Additionally, the raw data does still exist for most of the video material, and has recently been digitally re-matrixed. The Apollo 16 material I have looks very good. Indeed, some of the ASTP material I have is also pre-scan converted so it is definitely possible to reconvert. For the missions from Apollo 14 sun-proofing was integrated into the camera. As an added feature a lens cap was included on the camera for A14 (which can be seen coming into view a few times when the camera is moved). This explains why on the J missions you can see the camera point at or near the sun without being ruined. The following cameras were used on flights upto ASTP Apollo 1 (planned), 7 & 8 RCA B&W Apollo 9 & 11 Lunar EVA Westinghouse B&W lunar camera Apollo 10, 11 CSM, 12, 13, 14, 15 CSM, 16 CSM, 17 CSM, Skylab and ASTP (two cameras in CSM) Westinghouse color wheel Apollo 15, 16 & 17 Lunar EVA RCA GCTA color wheel camera Hope that helps. Dwight >Indeed, some of the ASTP material I >have is also pre-scan converted so it is definitely possible to >reconvert. ...*I* *WANT* *COPIES* OM Signature]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ > Regarding your specific question about the field sequential > recordings. I received the following from a Nasa employee [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > >Thishttp://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ApolloTV-Acrobat7.pdfhas a lot of > >information. Too bad that most everything of those original video and audio recordings is gone with the wind, so to speak. You folks do know the meaning of "original", don't you? How about sharing those new and improved digital scans of their unfiltered Kodak moments (all the way down to the grain of that rad- hard and thermal proof film). - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth On Jun 10, 12:27 pm, Jud McCranie <youknowwhat.mccra...@comcast.net> wrote: > The Apollo 11 Slow-scan TV and the conversion is pretty well known. > What about the TV on the later Apollo landings? I know it was in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > Replace you know what by j to email How do you like your DARPA New World Order thus far? - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth |
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