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Space Forum / Space History / May 2004Okay; it's a tad radical...
But do you think whoever came up with the horizontally integrated Shuttle/External tank idea had this book as a kid? Circa 1959: http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/showmest.gif .....meanwhile, maybe it's an Atlas...maybe it's a Thor, but whatever it is, it also has an X-15 on it: http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/rock.gif Pat >But do you think whoever came up with the horizontally integrated >Shuttle/External tank idea had this book as a kid? Circa 1959: >http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/showmest.gif >.....meanwhile, maybe it's an Atlas...maybe it's a Thor, but whatever >it is, it also has an X-15 on it: >http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/rock.gif That's the way it should have been. Like the X-15F/Super Nova combination Frank Harvey describes in his short story "The Death Dust". Yet another page for my bookmark collection.  SignatureSave the Hubble Space Telescope! Remove spam and invalid from address to reply. (And now for some "Twin Spica" humor... ;) Ahah! The long-lost appendix to the classic spaceflight textbook "My Dream" by Asumi Kamogawa! Little did anyone realize that Asumi's plans to go nuclear began at a very young age... SignatureChuck Stewart "Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?" (And now for some "Twin Spica" humor... ;) Ahah! The long-lost appendix to the classic spaceflight textbook "My Dream" by Asumi Kamogawa! http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/sat1.gif Little did anyone realize that Asumi's plans to go nuclear began at a very young age... SignatureChuck Stewart "Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?" >Ahah! The long-lost appendix to the classic spaceflight textbook "My >Dream" by Asumi Kamogawa! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Little did anyone realize that Asumi's plans to go nuclear began at a very >young age... Chesley Bonestell this ain't... Pat >But do you think whoever came up with the horizontally integrated >Shuttle/External tank idea had this book as a kid? Circa 1959: >http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/showmest.gif Oh, ideas along those lines go back rather farther. Two or three Space Accesses ago, Gerry Nordley pointed out that the launcher described in Arthur C. Clarke's "Islands in the Sky" (published in 1952) has a configuration that's practically a dead ringer for the shuttle, solid boosters and all -- the only clear difference is that it has a pair of drop tanks rather than a single big one. >.....meanwhile, maybe it's an Atlas...maybe it's a Thor, but whatever it >is, it also has an X-15 on it: >http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/rock.gif It's a Thor, more or less. Can't be an Atlas, because it lacks the squarish side fairings (which is where Atlas kept all its electronics -- there was nothing on top except the warhead). SignatureMOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. | henry@spsystems.net >It's a Thor, more or less. Can't be an Atlas, because it lacks the >squarish side fairings (which is where Atlas kept all its electronics -- >there was nothing on top except the warhead). On the other hand it's got four Atlas-style vernier engines mounted around the exterior of the engine bay skirt rather than the two (one per either side of the main motor) mounted on the inside of the skirt, Thor style. I assume this is due to the fact that the X-15 might have a slight destabilizing effect on the booster's trajectory due to its aerodynamic surfaces! On a lark, I looked up the figures on this combination- using the Thor Agena's first stage we have a total launch weight of 109,000 lbs. and a thrust of 150,000 lbs., leaving us 41,000 lbs. to play with...the standard X-15 weighs in at 31,275 lbs. fully tanked up; so it actually could rise off the pad...but very slowly...I kind of like the one riding on the side of the Atlas- anyone going to do the math to see if it can get to orbit after it ditches the Atlas and revs up its LR99? Pat > But do you think whoever came up with the horizontally integrated > Shuttle/External tank idea had this book as a kid? Circa 1959: > http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/showmest.gif > .....meanwhile, maybe it's an Atlas...maybe it's a Thor, but whatever it > is, it also has an X-15 on it: > http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/rock.gif But Pat... _this_ is scary... note where our intrepid (i.e. white, male) space hero is wearing his crash helmet: http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/wondersofspace.htm > Pat SignatureChuck Stewart "Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?" >But Pat... _this_ is scary... note where our intrepid (i.e. white, male) >space hero is wearing his crash helmet: > >http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/wondersofspace.htm Host: "Is that a crash helmet?" Jose Jimenez: "Oh, I hope not..." This guy is obviously expecting one rough flight....and real steely-eyed spacesuit designers would have equipped their suit with a breathing system, so that you don't have to wear a oxygen mask inside your helmet...still, when your crash helmet shatters your helmet bubble during staging... Pat Pat > > >>Pat >> > > > > But do you think whoever came up with the horizontally integrated > > Shuttle/External tank idea had this book as a kid? Circa 1959: > > http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/showmest.gif Man, we sure did things in a more relaxed and innocent frame of mind back then, huh? Look how laid-back the security is, that a couple of kids can just mosey on out near the pad -- well within the range of the flame trench, it appears -- and just walk right up and say "hi" to a fully-suited crewman about to board the craft. Dig that suit, too; looks vaguely like some kind of old training suit I saw a foto of Cooper wearing on one of his Vomit Comet flights. > > .....meanwhile, maybe it's an Atlas...maybe it's a Thor, but whatever it > > is, it also has an X-15 on it: > > http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/rock.gif Y'know, it looks to me like some magazine illustrator's -- not even an engineering concept artist's -- version of a "modern" launch vehicle, painted from memory or perhaps incorporating what he thought were the visually "cooler" elements of the boosters of that era. I see a bit of Titan in that mystery booster. What bothers me more here is that he has our alleged X15 mounted at the _tip_ of the booster, DynaSoar-style, when X15, iirc, didn't really have the hardware mounts for that. Look where it is, right up the...well, let's just say in a few minutes, that pilot is going to give a new meaning to the term "fire in the hole". > But Pat... _this_ is scary... note where our intrepid (i.e. white, male) > space hero is wearing his crash helmet: > > http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/wondersofspace.htm WTF...? Is that guy really wearing a regular fighter pilot's hard crash helmet _under_ an Apollo-style polycarbonate "bubble", with an _oxygen_mask_ on, and a suit that looks vaguely like an ILC AxL Apollo suit with the outside off, at http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/a/a7lbdiag.gif ? Oh, well, guess he couldn't look or feel any weirder than Jim Lovell probably does at http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/lores/S65-59934.jpg . Signature"All over, people changing their votes, along with their overcoats; if Adolf Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway!" --the clash. ___________________________________________________________________ Mike Flugennock, flugennock at sinkers dot org Mike Flugennock's Mikey'zine, dubya dubya dubya dot sinkers dot org > <snip> > > Oh, well, guess he couldn't look or feel any weirder than Jim Lovell > probably does at http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/lores/S65-59934.jpg . Yeah, but that was one of those weird, doffable-in-a-Gemini suits that they wore on Gemini VII. It didn't have a helmet, it had a hood that zipped up around a faceplate. Since the hood was all made of cloth, they needed a crash helmet inside of it... Doug dvandorn@NOSPAM.mn.rr.com >Yeah, but that was one of those weird, doffable-in-a-Gemini suits that >they wore on Gemini VII. It didn't have a helmet, it had a hood that >zipped up around a faceplate. Since the hood was all made of cloth, >they needed a crash helmet inside of it... ...The funny part was that they resembled in an ertzatz way the pressure suit helmets on _Things to Come_, one of those films that has to be seen to be truly appreciated. OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr >...The funny part was that they resembled in an ertzatz way the >pressure suit helmets on _Things to Come_, one of those films that has >to be seen to be truly appreciated. GIANT FLYING WINGS! ALL HAIL THE GIANT FLYING WINGS!!! There's supposed to be a halfways decent DVD of it out. Pat >But do you think whoever came up with the horizontally integrated >Shuttle/External tank idea had this book as a kid? Circa 1959: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Pat Wow. I remember reading that second one when I was a kid. > But do you think whoever came up with the horizontally integrated > Shuttle/External tank idea had this book as a kid? Circa 1959: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Pat I love the tomato worm suit and the Air Force issue P-4 helmet and A-14 oxygen mask. It seems more suited to flying the B-58 than outer space. He's also sitting on an ejection seat. Shades of RocketShip XM. Gene First pic: Flying Wing Gets Pregnant. http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/rktotm.htm I remember this art from when I was a kid, and now I want to know the terrible truths behind it.... 1. Did this incautious mother-to-be ever have existence on anyone's drawing board? 2. If so... what the hell was it supposed to be? Second Pic: Party Responsible For Condition Of Ship In First Pic Attempts Suicide. 1. Did this flying phallic symbol, with its built-in but not very effective diaphragm, ever have existence on anyone's drawing board? 2. If so... what the hell was it supposed to be? 3. Why is it trying to commit suicide when it will soon have so many little flying wings to be responsible for? Even under Lunar gravity a skew involving 1/4 of your take-off thrust would be disastrous, no? (Same if landing, right?) 4. The 'Von Braun', vainly struggling for life as it careens towards the Moon in the upper right corner of the pic,, is obviously doomed... so why are they firing the fusion drive in the wrong direction? Next episode: WTF? Phase 02 Venusian Fire-Women Need Diamonds! SignatureChuck Stewart "Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?" Diamonds In The Rough Trade? http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/stat1.gif Another memory of youth... Obviously the Earthmen misunderstood when they heard that the Venusian Fire-women liked diamonds. 1. Although under a "Space Station" category these are obviously ships, and furthermore I saw this design elsewhere!... So who came up with this design... and why? 2. Given a fission pile and spin gravity I can understand the cruciform design... but why the connecting passages between the tips? Here they are shown being used at least partly for storage, but what else could they have been used for as they would have ben angled strangely under spin? 3. The diamond-winged lander towards the right could pass as feasible... but what is the globular protrusion at one end? Was the lander itself nuclear-powered? 4. I don't think that that nuke-tipped interceptor missile will fare well against the Venusian Pterodactyl Corp... but why were they carrying one in the first place? SignatureChuck Stewart "Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?" >Diamonds In The Rough Trade? > >http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/stat1.gif The red parts of the ships appear to be those same ball-and-cone Moon things again! With those tether lines on them there is no way they can rotate like donut space stations; which is all for the good, as sliding down the tubes to the four outer corners might be uncomfortable. Pat > The red parts of the ships appear to be those same ball-and-cone Moon > things again! > With those tether lines on them there is no way they can rotate like > donut space stations; which is all for the good, as sliding down the > tubes to the four outer corners might be uncomfortable. Why do I get the feeling that should be on lileks.com? (see http://www.lileks.com/institute/index.html ) Paul >> The red parts of the ships appear to be those same ball-and-cone Moon >> things again! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >(see http://www.lileks.com/institute/index.html ) Hmm.... Maybe we should all write Jim and plead with him to take his fine comic touch to these icons of our youth. (His recent 're-doing' of a Little Big Book had me laughing all week.) D. SignatureTouch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. >First pic: Flying Wing Gets Pregnant. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >2. If so... what the hell was it supposed to be? I assume it's supposed to be some sort of ion drive; either that, or it uses radio frequency emissions from the circular antennas to excite the propellant exiting the motor; like a giant microwave oven... but what's making the blue glow around the antennas? Is mercury vapor being pumped around the central jet while constrained by an electric field or held inside a magnetic bottle, like a cyclotron of some sort? It looks like some sort of UFO propulsion system...it also looks like something that some thought was put into, rather than just made up. And it looks familiar somehow....like something in either a Tesla coil or a vacuum tube. >Second Pic: Party Responsible For Condition Of Ship In First Pic Attempts >Suicide. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >skew involving 1/4 of your take-off thrust would be disastrous, no? >(Same if landing, right?) Actually, it's worse than that, it's firing on motor_downward_ at the same time it's firing the other one upwards; unless this is a very brief firing, it's going to upside down in no time flat...also, why not just reduce the trust of the motor on the side you want to pivot toward, rather than firing one upwards? You are basically fighting your own thrust. >4. The 'Von Braun', vainly struggling for life as it careens towards the >Moon in the upper right corner of the pic,, is obviously doomed... so why >are they firing the fusion drive in the wrong direction? The "motor section" seems to be identical to the center part of the one that's landing; which also seems to have a nozzle on its center bottom (not firing). Is the glowing blue stuff supposed to be inside the torus on the landing one? Does the one in orbit (very _low_ orbit) have a modified version of the one landing pushing on its rear, like a space tug? >Next episode: WTF? Phase 02 Venusian Fire-Women Need Diamonds! I'm breastlessly...breathlessly...waiting! :-) Pat > First pic: Flying Wing Gets Pregnant. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 1. Did this incautious mother-to-be ever have existence on anyone's > drawing board? ... > 1. Did this flying phallic symbol, with its built-in but not very > effective diaphragm, ever have existence on anyone's drawing board? Almost certainly not. In the early '60's, aerospace companies hired artists by the busload to paint fantastical-yet-vaguely-realistic concepts by the truckload. Paintings of advanced spacecraft powered gy what can only be described as technomagic were common, but not based on anything beyond a vague notion. The Martin Corporation was a leader in the field of Really Cool Utter Bullshit Art. SignatureScott Lowther, Engineer Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam gibberish from the reply-to e-mail address [...] > The Martin Corporation was a leader in > the field of Really Cool Utter Bullshit Art. The RCUBA drive? /dps > But do you think whoever came up with the horizontally integrated > Shuttle/External tank idea had this book as a kid? Circa 1959: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Pat Do ya think it this was the inspiration for Rutan's Spaceship One? http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/ship5.gif Gene >Do ya think it this was the inspiration for Rutan's Spaceship One? > >http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/ship5.gif It does look like it, doesn't it? The Spaceship 1 cockpit needs only a heat ray mounted in the nose to be an acceptable mount for Buck Rogers (I'm glad I stumbled on that website, it appears to be a major hit, doesn't it?) Pat |
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