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Space Forum / Space History / April 2004Did Tang REALLY make it to space?
A friend asked why Tang was sent up on early spaceflights, rather than various other drinks, orange juice, instant coffee, and so on. Coffee was easy enough to explain pre-Apollo, certainly, but ... Looking up the biomedical results of Project Mercury I could only find evidence that Scott Carpenter, Wally Schirra, and Gordon Cooper drank water -- no Tang -- while in flight: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-6/ch5b.htm http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-12/ch.3.htm http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-45/ch18.htm The Gemini menu opens up some -- grapefruit drink, orange drink, grape punch, orange-grapefruit drink, grape drink (the difference from grape peunch eludes me), pineapple-grapefruit drink, and cocoa, but I can't find word about brand names, or who suppliers were: http://spacelink.nasa.gov/Instructional.Materials/NASA.Educational.Products/Spac e.Food.and.Nutrition/appendix-c.html And then the Apollo diet opens up grape drink, orange drink, pineapple-orange drink, pineapple-grapefruit drink, grapefruit with sugar, and cocoa, but again says nothing of suppliers: http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/books/apollo/S6CH1.htm So, the question stands. Did Tang really maek it off the Earth, and if so, when?  SignatureJoseph Nebus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >So, the question stands. Did Tang really maek it off the Earth, >and if so, when? ...Sally Ride, June 18,1983, STS-7, Challenger. OM <om@up_yours.com> wrote in news:gcao709mo8c7p452cksgi9chphs2av88jt@ 4ax.com: >>So, the question stands. Did Tang really maek it off the Earth, >>and if so, when? > > ...Sally Ride, June 18,1983, STS-7, Challenger. Up-poon my word! OM's made a funny. ;) --Damon >> >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Up-poon my word! OM's made a funny. ;) Oh hell, I missed that one... :-D Pat > The Gemini menu opens up some -- grapefruit drink, orange drink, That's the Tang. There was a really funny moment during one of the Gemini flights that I caught live on television- one of the capcoms at ground control asked one of the crew "How does the Tang taste?" and got the reply "It sure doesn't taste like real orange juice to me...."* This being covered on the network (I forget which one) that's space coverage was sponsored by Tang, and whose announcer had a big "Tang" sticker on the front of his desk. He looked very sheepish. * Okay whizz kids, somebody dig out all the Gemini flight transcripts and start looking; this is a first-hand story, not an urban myth. Pat > > The Gemini menu opens up some -- grapefruit drink, orange drink, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > * Okay whizz kids, somebody dig out all the Gemini flight transcripts > and start looking; this is a first-hand story, not an urban myth. Whizz kids could start looking here: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/mission_trans/mission_transcripts.htm In the pull-down menu at the bottom of the page, select the mission of interest. Jeff SignatureRemove "no" and "spam" from email address to reply. If it says "This is not spam!", it's surely a lie. >> * Okay whizz kids, somebody dig out all the Gemini flight transcripts >> and start looking; this is a first-hand story, not an urban myth. > > Whizz kids could start looking here: > > http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/mission_trans/mission_transcripts.htm A google search of tang site:www.jsc.nasa.gov turns up some interesting hits: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/oral_histories/BellLE/BellLE_6-26-01.pdf look at the bottom of page 29 for an incident involving the Gemini ECS, John Young and some spilled Tang getting vacuumed up with an ECS hose and turning into orange jello inside the ECS system. http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/flag/flag.htm has a footnote saying that NASA carefully hid the identity of the manufacturer of the flag left on the moon by Apollo 11 because the "didn't want another Tang." This is also likely the reason that Al Shepard took the secret of the brand of his moon shot golf balls to his grave. Although the above search should have included the mission transcripts it didn't turn up anything. So I've started downloading the pdf files of the composite air-to-ground, ground-to-air and onboard voice recorder transcripts for the Gemini missions and searched manually for "tang" and "orange" None of the Gemini 3, 5, 9, 11 and 12 transcripts seem to mention either tang or orange. The Gemini 4 transcript has several mentions of orange juice, including the observation that that orange juice bags all seemed to have leaky valves. No mention of Tang. The Gemini 6 transcript only has orange as a reference to the color of the moon, no mention of Tang. The Gemini 7 transcript is in three parts. The first part has one mention of the astronauts having an orange drink, so does part two. Part three mentions an orange camera lens filter. No mention of Tang. The Gemini 10 transcript contains the only reference to Tang I found (p. 279) This appears to be related to the John Young Tang spill incident mentioned in the oral history above. No mention of orange let alone orange juice though. So from the transcripts, Pat's recollection seems to be a little off. Perhap's rather than an air-to-ground conversation it was a conversation between Uncle Walter or another on-air network personality and one of the Astronaut color commentators on the ground. >So from the transcripts, Pat's recollection seems to be a little off. >Perhaps rather than an air-to-ground conversation it was a conversation >between Uncle Walter or another on-air network personality and >one of the Astronaut color commentators on the ground. It wasn't Cronkite; let's see if we can narrow this down some- which network did Tang sponsor the space coverage for? I tried a Google search, but didn't come up with anything..... I specifically remember the incident; my father saw it also, and he too was laughing about it- because the commentator didn't have a clue about what exactly to say after the statement... did news commentators ever get to ask questions directly to the astronauts? The John Young Tang incident would be the most likely suspect in regards to this being the incident...did the transcripts get edited in any way- you know, like the "hot mike" on Apollo 13... did whatever they said get into the transcripts? I virtually certain that this was on a Gemini flight; I only vaguely remember the Mercury ones, and it was well before the Moon landings. They only possible Apollo flight candidates would be Apollo 7 or 9, but I'm sure it was before that. Of course, some around sci.space.policy think I have completely lost it, but this thing isn't even vaguely Iraq-related. ;-) Pat >It wasn't Cronkite; let's see if we can narrow this down some- which >network did Tang sponsor the space coverage for? ...IIRC, all three had Tang spots. See-BS I can confirm directly from memory, and NBC as well. ABC's coverage I rarely watched in those days because...well, ABC *sucked* in those days, but again IIRC Tang, like Gulf Oil, ran spots on all three networks. OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr >...IIRC, all three had Tang spots. See-BS I can confirm directly from >memory, and NBC as well. ABC's coverage I rarely watched in those days >because...well, ABC *sucked* in those days, but again IIRC Tang, like >Gulf Oil, ran spots on all three networks. Whoever this was, they had a Tang logo on the front of the desk...although if Tang was that hand in spaceglove with all three networks as well as NASA, then I can see just how that remark somehow didn't get into the final transcripts. This could be a cover-up even bigger than Area 51/Velcro connection and the Soviet Moon Monkey conspiracy! Remember those model railway set-ups that they used to show the Gemini coming up on the Agena? Hell, orbital navigation can't be all that hard...one hand on the switch control, the other on the transformer, and docking's a snap. Pat >Whoever this was, they had a Tang logo on the front of the >desk... Did all the networks put up sponsor's logos on their news desks, or just NBC? I don't remember the Tang one, but NBC used to have a big Exxon sign on the desk in the '70s. I don't think they could get away with that now :) >Remember those model railway set-ups that they used to show the Gemini >coming up on the Agena? Hell, orbital navigation can't be all that >hard...one hand on the switch control, the other on the transformer, and >docking's a snap. Especially if your spacecraft is fitted with Kadee Magnematic couplers, although you can only undock when you pass over the magnetic ramp... Dale > The John Young Tang > incident would be the most likely suspect in regards to this being the > incident...did the transcripts get edited in any way- you know, like the > "hot mike" on Apollo 13... did whatever they said get into the > transcripts? Well, as I said I used the combined ground-to-air, air-to-ground, and tape dump transcripts. There are also PA commentary transcripts, which I didn't look at but I figure that those were more likely to have been "redacted". I just downloaded the PAO commentary transcript for GT-10 and it has no mention of Tang, so the discussion was apparently off-air. I looked for flake which was also mentioned and found some discussion where they were asking Collins and Young to look for flakes in each others eyes in order to diagnose their eye irritation problems, but there was no mention of what those flakes were. The transcripts are all marked as "Confidential" with a notation that the classification was to be downgraded in three year intervals, with declassification to occur after 12 years. >The transcripts are all marked as "Confidential" with a >notation that the classification was to be downgraded in three year >intervals, with declassification to occur after 12 years. Yeah...we don't want Mister Commie to find out how to make Tang, do we? "Soviet rockets-WHOOSH- Venus! American rockets- PFFT- Miami Beach!" -Otto Piffle, "One, Two, Three" Pat > It wasn't Cronkite; let's see if we can narrow this down some- which > network did Tang sponsor the space coverage for? My most valued VHS tape is six hours of ABC's coverage of Apollo 11. This network clearly displays a Tang bottle cap on the anchor desk of much of its coverage. (I can't say anything about CBS or NBC. There weren't any other tv channels back then...) SignatureKevin Willoughby kevinwilloughby@acm.orgNoSpam.invalid Imagine that, a FROG ON-OFF switch, hardly the work for test pilots. -- Mike Collins >My most valued VHS tape is six hours of ABC's coverage of Apollo 11. >This network clearly displays a Tang bottle cap on the anchor desk of >much of its coverage. (I can't say anything about CBS or NBC. There >weren't any other tv channels back then...) Bzzzzzzzt. You don't even get a copy of the home game. :) There were other *channels* (PBS, the odd independent), but there weren't any other *networks*, a significant distinction. D. SignatureTouch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. >Bzzzzzzzt. You don't even get a copy of the home game. :) > >There were other *channels* (PBS, the odd independent), but there >weren't any other *networks*, a significant distinction. Acftually, there was no PBS at the time- it was called NET :) Dale >>Bzzzzzzzt. You don't even get a copy of the home game. :) >> >>There were other *channels* (PBS, the odd independent), but there >>weren't any other *networks*, a significant distinction. > >Acftually, there was no PBS at the time- it was called NET :) ...Nope. Pee-BS was in existence by 1968, and by 1969 it had pretty much absorbed NET. In fact, by 1973 all existing NET programming had either been wiped(*) or had the end credits replaced with ones that stated it was a PBS program. Which was a shame, because the three drumming animated kids marching and spelling out NET was always a bit cooler than what replaced it. (*) Which meant that good, fun educational shows like Tony Salazan's "Sing, Children Sing!" no longer exist, but by contrast really awful shows like Senora Maria Elena Whatever's spanish language show that every single kid in the mid to late 60's HATED with a passion because she was so f.cking BORING also ceased to exist. Remember the geology lessons in the first part of the E2M episode, before Dr. Silver was recruited? Well, that's exactly how she taught spanish. No culture, just linguistics, all being forced down the minds of kids who didn't want to learn spanish to begin with. ...Incedentally, there was some justice in the end. In 1969, Senora Whassername wound up retooling the show into a spanish knockoff of "Sesame Street" called "Carrascolendas" that was actually quite entertaining. The kicker was that she showed up on the first couple of episodes, and when she attended the premier at some San Antonio elementary and all the kids in the audience groaned, moaned and otherwise showed their displeasure *only* when she showed up on the screen, she took the hint and never appeared on the show again. She wound up producing it for the entire run of the series, but thankfully we kids never had to put up with her boredom instead. OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr >>>Bzzzzzzzt. You don't even get a copy of the home game. :) >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >...Nope. Pee-BS was in existence by 1968, and by 1969 it had pretty >much absorbed NET. We were talking about the Gemini era, weren't we? The Corporation for Public Broadcasting was created in 1968, PBS went on the air in 1969, and NET was merged into it in 1970. They coexisted during 1969, then the supporting foundations pulled the plug on NET. >In fact, by 1973 all existing NET programming had >either been wiped(*) >or had the end credits replaced with ones that stated it was a PBS program. At least Mr. Rogers kept a reminder of NET on his show until he retired. The odd roofline of the HO scale house they zoomed in on at the end of the show was in the shape of the NET logo. Dale >We were talking about the Gemini era, weren't we? Oh- I re-read Kevin's post- he was watching Apollo 11. Never nind :) Dale >>...Nope. Pee-BS was in existence by 1968, and by 1969 it had pretty >>much absorbed NET. > >We were talking about the Gemini era, weren't we? ...Nope. Kev was talking about Apollo 11 coverage. >The Corporation for Public Broadcasting was created in 1968, PBS went >on the air in 1969, and NET was merged into it in 1970. They coexisted >during 1969, then the supporting foundations pulled the plug on NET. ...This was part of the plan. The idea of CPB was to unite NET and the other little minor edu-tv organizations such as WGBH in Boston into one big corporation that could spread whatever funding they gained a bit more efficiently while getting some semblance of better tax exemptions. PBS started network testing in late 1968, went officially on the air in 1969, and completed the merger with NET and the other groups by the end of 1970. What organizations that funded NET didn't "pull the plug", they simply allowed the NET support to be transferred over to Pee-BS by NET. Subtle difference, natch. >At least Mr. Rogers kept a reminder of NET on his show until he retired. >The odd roofline of the HO scale house they zoomed in on at the end of >the show was in the shape of the NET logo. ...And here I thought *I* was the only person who'd noticed that :-P OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr > ...This was part of the plan. The idea of CPB was to unite NET and the > other little minor edu-tv organizations such as WGBH in Boston into [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "pull the plug", they simply allowed the NET support to be transferred > over to Pee-BS by NET. Subtle difference, natch. Was Sesame Street (1969) created for PBS? >Was Sesame Street (1969) created for PBS? It started out on NET, but became a PBS show during its first year. http://www.4reference.net/encyclopedias/wikipedia/Sesame_Street.html http://www.louisvillecardinal.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/03/30/406a6bfcda2cf http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/N/htmlN/nationaleduc/nationaleduc.htm To veer slightly on-topic, Sesame Street made its first test shows (prior to premiering on the air) the same week Apollo 11 went to the moon. Dale >> ...This was part of the plan. The idea of CPB was to unite NET and the >> other little minor edu-tv organizations such as WGBH in Boston into [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Was Sesame Street (1969) created for PBS? ...Sort of. "Sesame Hood" started with an effort to create educational programming focusing on teaching latchkey ghetto kids linguistic skills dey wuzn't gittin' cuz mom wuz on de street an' daddy wuzn't home, period. The groups that were working on the concept started in late '67, and eventually formed together to create the Children's Television Workshop(*) All this eventually fell under the control of Pee-BS when they got off the ground, and actually became their flagship program for all practical purposes. (*) "Workshops" were concepts where "experts" would meet with a group of people, teach them some trick of the trade - such as how to hug a tree and not give it a hard-on that would damage the bark - and then after they tried it themselves would then go out and spread the knowledge while putting it to use themselves. A cross between a hipple ____-in and a civil rights lecture, essentially. They sort of fell out of vogue after the 70's and were replaced with "encounter groups". >(*) "Workshops" were concepts where "experts" would meet with a group >of people, teach them some trick of the trade - such as how to hug a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >____-in and a civil rights lecture, essentially. They sort of fell out >of vogue after the 70's and were replaced with "encounter groups". I'd better not show this to the people who know I go on "observers' workshops" (The British Astronomical Association does them). They would wonder what sort of "encounter" I was planning. SignatureSave the Hubble Space Telescope! Remove spam and invalid from address to reply. > > (I can't say anything about CBS or NBC. There > >weren't any other tv channels back then...) > There were other *channels* (PBS, the odd independent), but there > weren't any other *networks*, a significant distinction. Maybe where you lived, but where I lived, in the late 1960s, there was the CBS channel, the NBC channel and the ABC channel. SignatureKevin Willoughby kevinwilloughby@acm.orgNoSpam.invalid Imagine that, a FROG ON-OFF switch, hardly the work for test pilots. -- Mike Collins >>My most valued VHS tape is six hours of ABC's coverage of Apollo 11. >>This network clearly displays a Tang bottle cap on the anchor desk of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >There were other *channels* (PBS, the odd independent), but there >weren't any other *networks*, a significant distinction. ...I have to come to Kev's defense here a bit, Derek. Back in 1969, from about 1/5 of the US population, there may have actually been only "one network" because there may have been only one or two stations in their local area. One station was either Pee-BS or an independent, while the other carried one or more of the networks' programming, sometimes tape delaying one network's shows for airing later in the evening or even in the week. In those days, especially in areas where cable TV had not arrived and/or was not going to be an option thanks to some of the rural Bell System companies refusing to allow the use of their phone poles for cable stringing, the one local station could work out some really sweet deals with the networks as to what programming they would or would not carry. CIP: Until 1964, KTBC-TV was the only TV station in Central Texas that had any serious wattage to it. KCEN (Temple/Belton/Killeen) and KWTX (Temple-Waco) had some coverage, but only about half the wattage that KTBC had. Of course, part of this had to do with the fact that LBJ owned the station, and it's well known around these parts that he pulled a lot of strings while in DC to keep other stations from opening in the Austin market for years. The biggest arguement was that, because his station was smack-dab in the middle of the VHF dial, there would be constant bleedover problems if any other high-powered stations were allowed in the other two clear channels available at the time - 3 and 4. 4 soon became closed when WOAI (San Antonio) went the TV route, and while 3 belonged to KRIS (Corpus Christi) even though the distance was enough to make any Austin station's intereference negligible, LBJ used the potential as an arguement to keep other stations out of the market for almost 15 years. ...Still, Austin was the state capitol, and a booming market. As a result, all three networks negotiated some really sweet deals for programming with LBJ that, when you pull up old _TV Guides_ for this area from 1954 to 1964, it looks like a Nick-At-Night addict's wet dream. Even when KHFI(*) launched in 1964 on UHF 42 and took over the NBC programming, the VHF 7 lineup of CBS & ABC was still far more powerful. That year, only "Bonanza"(**) and "The Man From Uncle" (***) had top-20 ratings in the local market, and ABC had the hold on the college football contracts anyway. In the end, KTBC was the ratings leader all the way up to fall of 1971, when the ABC affiliation went to KVUE UHF 24. (*) Chosen because their transmitter, although low-powered, was engineered for hi-fi sound transmission. Not that they ever used it, because any form of stereo broadcast that sounded worth a sh.t was almost 20 years away... (**) LBJ reportedly was a major fan of this show, and was seriously pissed at NBC for moving their affiliation to KHFI. (***) On the other hand, according to some of the old KTBC heads, he *hated* this show, and would have probably not aired it had NBC been affiliated the season it premiered. He did, ironically, like "Get Smart". Go figure. ...It wasn't until three shots and at least one from a Grassy Knoll put him in the White House that one local investor was able to get the FCC to approve his request for a license. The trick this time, however, was that the request was made for a UHF channel. Where LBJ's engineers were successful in keeping a tight hold on the VHF channels, UHF was a different story. Shorter range and different frequencies meant the interference arguement held even less water than a sieve. The FCC then opened up UHF channels 24, 36, 54 and 66 for the local market, although it took years for 36 and 54 to see use, and those took the arrival of two new networks to force that one into action. ...One addition bit that's come to light of late: one of the reasons LBJ got away with a lot of the control he had on local tv station allocations is that he compensated the public with one of the cheapest, most reliable cable TV setups in history. For $5/month USD circa 1965, you got 12 channels (&): all of Austin's, all of San Antonio's, the two sh.t stations up around Waco, a rudimentarty weather channel, and eventually one independent out of Dallas that never did come in clearer than the A17 feed most of the time. That rate held until the mid 70's, when they expanded to a 40+ channel system. Even then, the rate only went to $13/month, and you got better reception for the out-of-town channels until FinSyn screwed everything up. (&) Channel 6 wasn't exactly usable due to bleedover from 7 itself, and from KCEN in Temple, who'd gotten a power boost by 5kw in 1966 and could actually be picked up in the north parts of town if you had a good mast antenna. So naturally, LBJ stuck both KCEN and KWTX there on a shared basis! ...As for Pee-BS, odds were is that if there were two stations, one was Pee-BS, and as far as the Apollo 11 landing was concerned they didn't count. What coverage they provided, from what I've been able to dig up, wasn't even taped for posterity, and over half of the Pee-BS affiliates didn't even carry it save for the actual first walk so local copies are virtually nonexistent. The local Pee-BS affiliate here damn sure didn't have a copy, and the chief engineer who was a tape op when that event happened vouched for the fact that the station manager prohibited making a permanent 2" tape of the event because the station couldn't afford to "waste the tape". Just goes to show when you're dealing with preserving history, bean counters should be shot on sight. But I'm digressing way out of topic here. Suffice to say, cable TV needs an LBJ running it now, dammit... OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org> wrote: >...I have to come to Kev's defense here a bit, Derek. Back in 1969, >from about 1/5 of the US population, there may have actually been only >"one network" because there may have been only one or two stations in >their local area. One station was either Pee-BS or an independent, >while the other carried one or more of the networks' programming, It never occurred to me that Jax FL, which was then just breaking out of it's hick town mold, would in fact not be representative of the bulk of the US. I plainly recall all three networks, plus PBS, plus two indepedents. D. SignatureTouch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. >It never occurred to me that Jax FL, which was then just breaking out >of it's hick town mold, would in fact not be representative of the >bulk of the US. I plainly recall all three networks, plus PBS, plus >two indepedents. ...But what time frame are we talking about? And were there six stations total, or did any one station share network affilation between two networks? OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org> wrote: >>It never occurred to me that Jax FL, which was then just breaking out >>of it's hick town mold, would in fact not be representative of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >stations total, or did any one station share network affilation >between two networks? Six stations total IIRC. D. SignatureTouch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. > OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Six stations total IIRC. Interesting... I knew, as I was growing up, that some markets didn't have a separate channel for each of the three major networks; I discovered that on a family vacation to South Dakota and Colorado in 1967, where a Rapid City station carried both ABC and NBC programs, and not on the network's schedules. I grew up in Bloomington/Normal, Illinois, and our TV stations came out of Peoria, about 45 miles away. There were three UHF stations out of Peoria -- 19, 25 and 31 -- which were ABC, NBC and CBS, respectively. There were also two VHF channels that we could get, 3 and 11, which came out of Champaign, about 75 miles away. Channel 3 was a second CBS station, and channel 11 was the NET/PBS station. So we had complete coverage of all of the major networks from as long ago as I can remember. Now, in early 1969, we got our first cable system, which was nothing more than a large community antenna that was set up to get channel 9, WGN, out of Chicago. (That was because all of the Cub fans in the area wanted to see the Cub games on WGN.) The cable system had a news channel that was nothing more than a character generator atrtached to the AP newswire, and a "weather" channel that consisted of a slow-scan TV camera (probably very similar to the ones carried on Apollos 7-9) and a moving platform that brought into view a thermometer gauge, a windspeed/direction gauge, and a barometer gauge. The cable system also pulled in an extra NBC station (15) and an extra ABC station (17), both out of Decatur, about 90 miles away. You *could* get those on an antenna if it was tall enough, but most of the time we couldn't get decent reception on them without the cable system. I can still recall hanging on the AP newswire channel in November, 1969, while Apollo 12 was in its final countdown. They ran updates on the change-out of one of the hydrogen cryo tanks in Apollo 12's service module -- I went to bed knowing that the change-out was complete and the launch for the next morning was GO. It was my first taste of having news on demand... I've been hooked ever since. One interesting thing about the frequencies of the Peoria channels -- in about 1966, the Peoria NBC channel switched from being Channel 43, WTVH, to being Channel 25, WEEK. It was the same channel, the same ownership, everything -- they just changed both their frequency and their callsign at the same time. I never figured out why the frequency shift was necessary, since we had three channels squeezed between 15 and 19 that you could pick up if you had a tall enough antenna, and there was nothing else anywhere near channel 43. At least, nothing within 150 miles. Doug dvandorn@NOSPAM.mn.rr.com There were some odd arrangements in those days. When I was a kid growing up in the south, WTVY in Dothan, Alabama was a CBS affiliate, and WJHG in Panama City, Florida (about 60 miles south I think) was NBC. We had no ABC affiliate at the time, so the two stations actually shared the network, plugging assorted ABC programs into the schedule in afternoons and on weekends. These were the days when ABC was running things like Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Land of the Giants and Time Tunnel. It was frustrating for a skiffy-obsessed kid to see promos (and yes, we did get the network-inserted promos for everything on both channels) for these programs and not be able to find them, or to know that in some cases they didn't air at all in our area. I'm assuming though, that news and space launch coverage that I saw was all ABC or NBC, up through the late 60s/early 70s anyway. On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:22:52 -0600, OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org> wrote: >>It never occurred to me that Jax FL, which was then just breaking out >>of it's hick town mold, would in fact not be representative of the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > OM ------------------------------------------------- J. Steven York's Multiplex of the Mind http://member.newsguy.com/~jsteven/ >These were the days when ABC was running things like Voyage to the >Bottom of the Sea, Land of the Giants and Time Tunnel. It was >frustrating for a skiffy-obsessed kid to see promos (and yes, we did >get the network-inserted promos for everything on both channels) for >these programs and not be able to find them, or to know that in some >cases they didn't air at all in our area. ...LBJ reportedly liked "Batman" and "Time Tunnel", the latter because it used lots of old movie footage. Hence the propensity to run ABC's sci-fi/action shows over See-BS' in the rare occasions where they conflicted. >I'm assuming though, that news and space launch coverage that I saw >was all ABC or NBC, up through the late 60s/early 70s anyway. ...For the moon landings, KSAT-12 in San Antonio provided the ABC coverage, not that I watched any of it. See-BS and Unca Walter got the big color TV, while Frank, Chet and David got the smaller B&W sitting on top of the color TV with the cable split between the two. By Apollo 15, we had all three networks locally, so I could use three of the four TVs we owned by then - Two consoles, one color, one B&W, and two portables, one of each - to get all three in simultaneous coverage. It's an incredible rush to see all that video at once that I really miss today. It's also why I feel that there should be FCC rules that list NASA missions as 'must carry' and give automatic death penalties to any bluehairs or punchclocks or soapjunkies who bitch about prime time being dedicated to something more important than crap like "Sinefeld" or "Friends". >NASA missions as 'must carry' and give automatic death penalties >to any bluehairs or punchclocks or soapjunkies who bitch about prime >time being dedicated to something more important than crap like >"Sinefeld" or "Friends". The first one was that show about the Jewish mathematician, right? I used to love that one!! :) Dale >Two consoles, one color, one B&W, and two >portables, one of each Damm it's a long time since I've seen a console TV, or stereo for that matter. D. SignatureTouch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. >>Two consoles, one color, one B&W, and two >>portables, one of each > >Damm it's a long time since I've seen a console TV, or stereo for that >matter. ...Yeah, today's TVs are so...soulless. Minimalist plastic cases that just aren't that attractive. Give me good old stained wood cases any day of the week, dammit! OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr >>Damm it's a long time since I've seen a console TV, or stereo for that >>matter. > >...Yeah, today's TVs are so...soulless. Minimalist plastic cases that >just aren't that attractive. Give me good old stained wood cases any >day of the week, dammit! LOL- when people used to choose what kind of TV to buy, it was often between "Colonial", "Contemporary" or "Mediterranean" :) Dale > >>Damm it's a long time since I've seen a console TV, or stereo for that > >>matter. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > LOL- when people used to choose what kind of TV to buy, it was often > between "Colonial", "Contemporary" or "Mediterranean" :) How about Chesterfield, Regency or Baroque :) or Baroque :) That's what you were after buying one of the consoles. :-) >>>Two consoles, one color, one B&W, and two >>>portables, one of each [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > just aren't that attractive. Give me good old stained wood cases any > day of the week, dammit! Oh, I don't know. I like that modern teevees are not only better at providing a good picture, but are not connected to a set height above the floor, so that folks with different desires for that height, can get furniture that best fits their specific want. I'd hate to try to place a console set atop a dresser... <g> Andre -- " I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. " The Man Prayer, Red Green. > I'd hate to try to place a console set atop a dresser... <g> You could take the legs off it, probably. >> I'd hate to try to place a console set atop a dresser... <g> > > You could take the legs off it, probably. True, but the weight of the console, added to the weight of the set mechanism itself, would be non trivial... Andre -- " I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. " The Man Prayer, Red Green. > > >>I'd hate to try to place a console set atop a dresser... <g> >> > >You could take the legs off it, probably. I always liked the ones where the tube was mounted on top in a swivel mounting: http://www.cedmagic.com/history/philco-predicta-princess.html This was from back when the future was supposed to look futuristic. Pat >>>I'd hate to try to place a console set atop a dresser... <g> >> >>You could take the legs off it, probably. ...That's what I did with the B&W console. Mounted it up on top of my dresser drawers when I decided I didn't want the mirror there anymore. Fit just inside the top edges just perfectly, and stayed there for about 9 years before the damn picture tube gassed up and that was all she wrote. By that time I was making money of my own and bought my first 19" color, cable-ready set. ...Nowadays, I use my computers for TVs, and my remaining 13" portable I've owned for almost 20 years sits collecting dust in the closet. >I always liked the ones where the tube was mounted on top in a swivel >mounting: >http://www.cedmagic.com/history/philco-predicta-princess.html >This was from back when the future was supposed to look futuristic. ...A site dedicated to CEDs is interesting unto itself. I too bought one at a garage sale for $5, only because it had the two-part version of "The Cage" with it. At that time, it was the clearest, sharpest version of any TOS episode available, and was the first one to show just how cheap the sets really were. While not digital quality, you could see where paint had cracked on reused set portions, something most people didn't see until the digital remasters that Sci-Fi aired a few years back. ...As for the Predictas, one of the reasons that it didn't really save the company as much as it should was because there were superstitions about TVs in those days. Mom always told you not to sit too close to the set because you'll get x-rays, or don't wipe the dust off the screen with a wet cloth because the tube will implode, or in otherwords don't touch the goddamn thing because your father spent a month's pay on it and he'll bitchslap BOTH of us if it breaks! Either way, the tube wasn't in a chassis, and everyone knows you don't go inside of a TV set because of that nice filter cap that'll kill you if you cross the leads and it's charged, so here's this tube outside of the set, and the last thing you're conditioned to do is to touch it. Again, give me wood-grain around those grill masks... OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr > or in >otherwords don't touch the goddamn thing because your father spent a >month's pay on it and he'll bitchslap BOTH of us if it breaks! I held a powerful magnet up to the screen to make it distort the image; the magnet was so powerful that it created a dark spot on the screen where the cathode rays weren't hitting, when I took the magnet away, the picture stayed distorted and and the color was all off-kilter. It took a while to get it back to near normal ...I was in deep doo-doo when dad saw it. >Either >way, the tube wasn't in a chassis, and everyone knows you don't go >inside of a TV set because of that nice filter cap that'll kill you if >you cross the leads and it's charged, so here's this tube outside of >the set, and the last thing you're conditioned to do is to touch it. I accidentally touched the giant capacitor in a microwave oven once; I got knocked silly by that one. Pat > I accidentally touched the giant capacitor in a microwave oven once; I > got knocked silly by that one. Peter Parker had the spider... You've got the microwave. That explains your powers of wit. > Pat On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 03:25:01 GMT, "Greg D. Moore \(idiot\)" <mooregr_deleteth1s@greenms.com> wrote: >You've got the microwave. That explains your powers of wit. ...You got the shaft. That explains your powers of twit. OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr >Peter Parker had the spider... > >You've got the microwave. That explains your powers of wit. No, they are probably due to the impact with the basement ceiling in the failed Lunar Gravity Simulator. I wonder how many other readers of "Boy's Life" were maimed in _their_ variants of its design. (Cut to scene of a secret cemetery full of dead Cub Scouts at Area 51, each of which has been awarded a posthumous Space Merit Badge. A blood stained blue Cub Scout hat adorns each grave, and they rustle in the desert wind, as two 45 year old former Cub Scouts stand Honor Guard before the gate- each wears a Space Merit Badge, and has a metal plate in his cranium.) Pat > I held a powerful magnet up to the screen to make it distort the image; >the magnet was so powerful that it created a dark spot on the screen >where the cathode rays weren't hitting, when I took the magnet away, the >picture stayed distorted and and the color was all off-kilter. It took a >while to get it back to near normal ...I was in deep doo-doo when dad >saw it. ...When I worked at an arcade in the really early 80's, we'd get punks coming in all the time with speaker magnets trying to f.ck up the colors on games that pissed them off. Thankfully, my tenure with Muzak had gifted me with a large stack of magnets, so all I had to do was to run one real fast in an outward spiral around the edge, and the color usually came back perfect. >I accidentally touched the giant capacitor in a microwave oven once; I >got knocked silly by that one. ...Damn. There goes my drug abuse theory :-( OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >coming in all the time with speaker magnets trying to f.ck up the >colors on games that pissed them off. Oddly enough, I also worked at a game arcade, "punks" is a very understated term for some of the human detritus that hangs around them, like maggots on dead meat > Thankfully, my tenure with Muzak >had gifted me with a large stack of magnets, so all I had to do was to >run one real fast in an outward spiral around the edge, and the color >usually came back perfect. That's just how I fixed the TV; what causes the effect? Do the phosphors become magnetized? You want to see some real magnets, get some out of a hard drive. Those things are terrors. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >...Damn. There goes my drug abuse theory :-( If it helps, I dropped acid twice. I had the revelation that you could tell what species of spider a particular motorcycle resembles by the type of garage it builds. Pat >That's just how I fixed the TV; what causes the effect? Do the phosphors >become magnetized? ...It's the mask/grid that gets knocked out of gaussian alignment, and it only affects color tubes. B&W tubes get distorted in funky ways, but since there's no color they go back to normal when you remove the magnet. >You want to see some real magnets, get some out of a hard drive. Those >things are terrors. ...The thing I've always wanted was a small sealed half-dome of liquid with ferrofluid suspended in it. Then you'd take small magnets, place them underneath, and have a paperweight you could change into really weird 3-D patterns. OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr >On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:37:08 -0500, Pat Flannery <flanner@daktel.com> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >them underneath, and have a paperweight you could change into really >weird 3-D patterns. Sort of the magnetic equivalent of a Lava Lamp... Pat > >...The thing I've always wanted was a small sealed half-dome of liquid > >with ferrofluid suspended in it. Then you'd take small magnets, place > >them underneath, and have a paperweight you could change into really > >weird 3-D patterns. > > Sort of the magnetic equivalent of a Lava Lamp... Yeah - try Harrods. "Was that an African or Asiatic elephant, sir?" >>That's just how I fixed the TV; what causes the effect? Do the phosphors >>become magnetized? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >but since there's no color they go back to normal when you remove the >magnet. Yeah, the process is called degaussing (sp?). I haven't torn into many newer sets (why are/were TVs called "sets", anyway? Could you at one time buy the audio and video receivers separately? :), but at least the older ones had coils around the CRT near the face to "degauss" the screen. Maybe arcade displays lacked these? Dale Still using (occasionally) my family's first TV- a 1954 Dumont :) > Yeah, the process is called degaussing (sp?). I haven't torn into many > newer sets (why are/were TVs called "sets", anyway? Because they're 'receiving sets' for TV broadcast tranmissions. Radio receivers were called sets in the old days too. >> Yeah, the process is called degaussing (sp?). I haven't torn into many >> newer sets (why are/were TVs called "sets", anyway? > >Because they're 'receiving sets' for TV broadcast tranmissions. Radio >receivers were called sets in the old days too. OK, but back then, you needed your radio, batteries, headphones and an aerial. A TV with rabbit ears was pretty much self-contained (just plug it in), yet it was still called a "set". Also never quite understood why pants are in pairs, while a shirt is singular- you have both two arms and two legs, afterall... :) Dale > <snip> > > Also never quite understood why pants are in pairs, while a shirt is > singular- you have both two arms and two legs, afterall... :) Because pants (or pantaloons, as they were originally called) started out as two separate pieces, one for each leg. They tied to a belt and covered your legs -- your privates were covered by another article of clothing (often called a codpiece) that could be removed separately. In a world where you couldn't (or at least didn't often) take a sh.t indoors, and where zippers weren't even a gleam in anyone's eye, it makes sense to design your clothes such that you didn't have to remove the entire lower half of your habillement just to crap. Doug dvandorn@NOSPAM.mn.rr.com > but at least the > older ones had coils around the CRT near the face to "degauss" the > screen. Maybe arcade displays lacked these? My monitor, a 21" Nanao FlexScan F2-21 (which I got from a city auction for $20) degausses every time I boot. > >That's just how I fixed the TV; what causes the effect? Do the phosphors > >become magnetized? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > but since there's no color they go back to normal when you remove the > magnet. I remember one of our early color sets, when I was growing up, got really funky (I think from using the vacuum cleaner in front of it, not from us kids hitting it with magnets). The repairman came in with a "degausser" -- which was a little ring-shaped electromagnet that the guy moved in circular patterns around the front of the screen until the color and everything came back to normal. It was REALLY kewl to watch the magnetic field patterns of that thing swirl around the screen as he degaussed the set. Doug dvandorn@NOSPAM.mn.rr.com > If it helps, I dropped acid twice. Perhaps you only dropped acid once, and the second time was a flashback :) > > >>If it helps, I dropped acid twice. >> > >Perhaps you only dropped acid once, and the second time was a flashback :) I hadn't thought of that! "Leonov in the Sky with Diamonds...." Pat > >>If it helps, I dropped acid twice. > > > >Perhaps you only dropped acid once, and the second time was a flashback :) > > I hadn't thought of that! "Leonov in the Sky with Diamonds...." How about "Lucid" - it scans better :) >>I hadn't thought of that! "Leonov in the Sky with Diamonds...." >> > >How about "Lucid" - it scans better :) Look up the callsign for Voskhod 2 sometime... It's "Almaz"- subtle, huh? ;-) Pat >>run one real fast in an outward spiral around the edge, and the color >>usually came back perfect. > >That's just how I fixed the TV; what causes the effect? Do the phosphors >become magnetized? Not quite. *Color* CRTs have a metal "shadow mask" just behind the phosphors, with a hole pattern matching the phosphor pattern, so that each electron gun can "see" only the phosphors of the proper color -- the three electron beams arrive at slightly different angles, so that (e.g.) the "red" beam shining through the holes in the shadow mask illuminates only the red phosphor dots. The best shadow-mask materials are, unfortunately, magnetizable, and a strong magnet will magnetize them. And the magnetic field then screws up the electron paths in the vicinity, confusing the colors in particular. The fix is "degaussing", using a decaying AC magnetic field to take out any magnetization. As I understand it, modern TVs and video monitors generally have built-in degaussing systems, activated briefly during power-up, which will gradually take out any accidental magnetization of the shadow mask. But it takes a while; those systems aren't powerful. >You want to see some real magnets, get some out of a hard drive. Those >things are terrors. Ideally, hit the surplus stores etc. and find some old 5-inch hard drives. Those are new enough to use modern magnet technology, but large enough that the magnets had to be considerably bigger. SignatureMOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. | henry@spsystems.net > The fix is "degaussing", using a decaying AC magnetic field to take out > any magnetization. As I understand it, modern TVs and video monitors > generally have built-in degaussing systems, activated briefly during > power-up, which will gradually take out any accidental magnetization of > the shadow mask. But it takes a while; those systems aren't powerful. Is this why screen-savers were invented for computers? And - are they still necessary, or do today's CRT monitors not need them at all? >> The fix is "degaussing", using a decaying AC magnetic field to take out >> any magnetization. As I understand it, modern TVs and video monitors >> generally have built-in degaussing systems, activated briefly during >> power-up, which will gradually take out any accidental magnetization of >> the shadow mask. But it takes a while; those systems aren't powerful. ...Degaussers weren't standard on TV sets until the early 80's, and eventually all TV tubes are now designed with them as part of the system. Reportedly it was to avoid the FCC getting involved after one of the consumer watchdog groups asked why something as simple as a degausser couldn't be built into the sets and avoiding a costly repair bill from a TV repair crook. >Is this why screen-savers were invented for computers? And - are they still >necessary, or do today's CRT monitors not need them at all? ...The reason for screen savers is that, unlike TV, computers tend to leave the same image at the same position on the screen for excessively long periods of time. On a TV, the phosphors are constantly changing colors, and usually don't stay lit at the same color and intensity for very long periods. By changing the color and the luminosity, the phosphors don't get stagnant, and "burn-in" doesn't occur. ...With a computer CRT, it's highly probable that a phosphor will be lit at the same color and luminosity for days, weeks and even *months* on end, with the only break being when the monitor is shut off. The problem with shutting off the monitor is that, back in the early days of EGA and VGA monitors, the quality of the components was not as good as they are today, and quite a number of PC newsrags ran tests that showed leaving the monitors on constantly was far less harmful than the power surge that wakes up the parts when you turn it on after being cold overnight. Even with cheap monitors today that's not a problem, as one of the side benefits of sleep mode circuitry reduced the impact of power up surges, but back then it was an issue. ...So most people simply left the systems - which took forever to boot anyway - and monitors on. After a while, people started noticing ghostly afterimages were being seen when a different color background was popped up by a program loading. Usually it was a C:\> prompt, but as Windows showed up it wound up being window borders and toolbars. Long before Windows showed up, tho, the first DOS-level screensavers showed up, such as Dazzle, Stix, and one that IBM did that was really configurable that I'd love to have a copy of now just to see how fast it would run on a 2GHz system. ...Of course, screensavers do more now than they did back then. They look nice and they process data too. Pointcast turned your screensaver into a news center(*), and seti@home looks for Brad Guth's relatives so they can take him home, and one even does molecular modeling. And they perform one other purpose - they make your computer look as if it's doing *something* in the way Star Trek told us it should, by making pretty pictures while it was thinking. (*) They're gone now, as they tried to go to some sort of pay-service model when the web bust occurred. Flopped quicker than Pons & Fleischmann trying to create cold fusion using a bottle of schnappes and a slurpee. OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr In article <a1j5801bi4qkudphma888uv4n0p3lqqvhh@4ax.com>, OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org> wrote: > ...The reason for screen savers is that, unlike TV, computers tend to > leave the same image at the same position on the screen for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the luminosity, the phosphors don't get stagnant, and "burn-in" > doesn't occur. But with the advance of technology, there's now a new way to burn in your screen. If you have a wide-screen plasma TV, and you use it to display narrow-screen broadcasts framed with black bars (like letterbox in the other dimension) you will burn in the pattern in a few hundred hours. That's why they recommend displaying TV stretched out and distorted. (Plasma screens today are for people who can afford another in a few years.) SignatureDavid M. Palmer dmpalmer@email.com (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com) >But with the advance of technology, there's now a new way to burn in >your screen. If you have a wide-screen plasma TV, and you use it to >display narrow-screen broadcasts framed with black bars (like letterbox >in the other dimension) you will burn in the pattern in a few hundred >hours. That's why they recommend displaying TV stretched out and >distorted. ...And word from my engineering friends here in town is that the FCC is starting to look into this problem, and may order plasma screen manufacturers to come up with a solution to this problem or risk having their approvals denied. Seems that someone high-up in Uncle Charlie's hierarchy has already seen this burnin occur, and was *not* happy about what the customer service geek in India had to say about it. OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr > ...And word from my engineering friends here in town is that the FCC > is starting to look into this problem, and may order plasma screen [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > OM Show me your burned-in screen and I'll tell you who you are... :-) Stock tickers, shopping/weather channels sidebars, you name it. Just hope that noone actually burned-in the Adult PPV preview channels so far! > Show me your burned-in screen and I'll tell you who you are... :-) > > Stock tickers, shopping/weather channels sidebars, you name it. Just > hope that noone actually burned-in the Adult PPV preview channels so > far! If those are burning in, you need channels with a bit more variety.... or at least movement. And this goes to my rule #1 when choosing a hotel room: Avoid the hotels where they have maid service at 11:00 PM at night. On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:14:45 -0600, OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org> wrote: >...With a computer CRT, it's highly probable that a phosphor will be >lit at the same color and luminosity for days, weeks and even *months* [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >was popped up by a program loading. Usually it was a C:\> prompt, but >as Windows showed up it wound up being window borders and toolbars. Actually, it happened long before Windows. I saw a lot of monitors in those days that had bars burned in across the top and left side of the screen clearly identifiable as Lotus 123 or Visicalc spreadsheet bars. Software that used menus at the top (Wordstar) or bottom (WordPerfect) also burned in a lot. It was also common to see business CRTs burned in with some point of sale, financial, database or accounting software main screen. The biggest problem in those days being that, with almost all software being text based, you had just 80 x 24 character positions (on most screens) and a relatively small matrix of dots in each of those. So there were way fewer addressable pixels, and the odds were very, very high that the same pixels were going to be on more than others, especially when you started throwing in menu elements and software with structured screens like spreadsheets and word processors. Windows (once it moved over from its frightening text-based origins to a true graphical environment) actually improved the situation, though color and paper-white CRTs were less prone to burn in than monochrome ones anyway. ------------------------------------------------- J. Steven York's Multiplex of the Mind http://member.newsguy.com/~jsteven/ > ...With a computer CRT, it's highly probable that a phosphor will be > lit at the same color and luminosity for days, weeks and even *months* [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > problem, as one of the side benefits of sleep mode circuitry reduced > the impact of power up surges, but back then it was an issue. Oddly enough, my wife's monitor now has burn in from the screensaver. (She was using Windows 98s "Under the Sea", and though the fishes move, the coral around the edges doesn't. Whoever designed that didn't get the point of "screen saver". > Oddly enough, my wife's monitor now has burn in from the screensaver. (She > was using Windows 98s "Under the Sea", and though the fishes move, the coral > around the edges doesn't. Whoever designed that didn't get the point of > "screen saver". I don't know whether to laugh now, or wait for someone to claim that you're holding Microsoft "to an unrealistic standard." SignatureDave Michelson davem@ece.ubc.ca > <snip> > > Oddly enough, my wife's monitor now has burn in from the screensaver. (She > was using Windows 98s "Under the Sea", and though the fishes move, the coral > around the edges doesn't. Whoever designed that didn't get the point of > "screen saver". I have a minor amount of burn-in from running the SETI at Home screensaver for about a year and a half. There was a LOT of that screensaver that never moved. Doug dvandorn@NOSPAM.mn.rr.com >> ...modern TVs and video monitors >> generally have built-in degaussing systems, activated briefly during >> power-up, which will gradually take out any accidental magnetization of >> the shadow mask. But it takes a while... > >Is this why screen-savers were invented for computers? No, a different problem: screen savers came about because images on computer screens (especially in the old days) were much less dynamic than video, and could get burned into the phosphors. You could either switch the monitor off -- which was itself hard on the monitors, and required consciously remembering to do it -- or use a screen saver. (Simply going to a black screen was easy on the phosphors, but reportedly hard on the electron guns -- it was believed to be preferable to have something on the screen, but moving around steadily.) >And - are they still >necessary, or do today's CRT monitors not need them at all? Modern monitors are designed to power down and back up -- under control of the software, not the manual power switch -- without serious wear and tear, and that's the preferable approach. It's just as good at preserving the screen, and it saves energy too. SignatureMOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. | henry@spsystems.net > >> ...modern TVs and video monitors > >> generally have built-in degaussing systems, activated briefly during [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > electron guns -- it was believed to be preferable to have something on the > screen, but moving around steadily.) I had a few Novell Servers whose screens you could read even when they were "dark" Burn in was pretty bad on some of them. On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:31:27 GMT, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" <mooregr_deleteth1s@greenms.com> wrote: >I had a few Novell Servers whose screens you could read even when they were >"dark" Burn in was pretty bad on some of them. ...Pretty much every VT-52 & VT-100 at Texas U had some sort of burnin in the upper left corner of the screen, usually in a command prompt and/or two command prompts overlapping. The only monitor that I ever saw from that era that ran 24/7 that didn't have some sort of burnin were those great Tektronix monitors, just like they used on the original "Battlestar Ponderosa". I keep having dreams about someone writing Windows drivers for one of those...:-) OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr >> The fix is "degaussing", using a decaying AC magnetic field to take out >> any magnetization. As I understand it, modern TVs and video monitors [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Is this why screen-savers were invented for computers? And - are they still > necessary, or do today's CRT monitors not need them at all? Nope. That's a solution to another problem. Leave teh electron beams scanning a particular pattern on a CRT, and the electron bombardment will physically erode the phosphor coating. That's permanent. So, in the days before there was remote control of a computer monitor's power, the solution was to not keep teh screen imave in the same place. SignaturePete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster >the solution was to not keep teh screen imave in the >same place. ...God help us, Peter has contracted Haller's Syndrome! :-( OM Signature"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr >>the solution was to not keep teh screen imave in the >>same place. > > ...God help us, Peter has contracted Haller's Syndrome! :-( I've been teaching the dog to type, and I was just dictating. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. SignaturePete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster > >>the solution was to not keep teh screen imave in the > >>same place. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I've been teaching the dog to type, and I was just dictating. > That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. At this rate he'll beat my monkeys to "A Midsummer Night's Dream". |
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