Small, cheap, reusable rocket launcher
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Andrew Nowicki - 05 Jul 2006 14:57 GMT The rocket launchers are not economical because they are not reusable. When they reenter the atmosphere, their slender bodies soak up so much heat from the ambient atmosphere that they burn up. The Space Shuttle is somewhat reusable, but its slender body has to be protected with a thermal protection system that is expensive (because it covers large surface) and unreliable (because it has to be lightweight despite its large size). A rocket launcher shaped like a big conical reentry capsule would be more reusable than the Space Shuttle because its thermal protection system would be smaller (because it would cover only the bottom surface of the cone) and cheaper.
The conventional rocket launchers are shaped like a pencil to minimize aerodynamic drag during the first minute of the flight. A cone-shaped rocket launcher would generate too much drag unless it was slowly lifted above the dense part of the atmosphere (to the altitude of about 30 kilometers) with a balloon or a helicopter. Hydrogen balloons are cheap, but not reusable. Helicopters are reusable, but they need special engines that can operate at the altitude of 30 kilometers. There are three such engines: 1. Hydrogen peroxide monopropellant turbine has simple design, but the monopropellant is rather expensive and its catalyst bed can be contaminated with commercial grade monopropellant. 2. Steamjet engine is described in U.S. patent 6,202,404. Its most practicable implementation, called mass injection precompressor cooling (MIPCC) is a turbojet cooled with copious amounts of water and liquid oxygen. The cooling enables the turbojet to generate thrust up to the altitude of about 30 km. More info: http://tinyurl.com/msqra 3. Electric motors are cheap and can operate at the altitude of 30 km. Their energy source can be either a battery or a generator standing on the ground. The motors and the batteries need a cooling system when they operate at high altitude. 3a.Magnesium hydride battery with Ni catalyst has the highest energy density (http://www.energyadvocate.com/batts.htm) but it is not yet mature technology. Li-ion batteries have energy density of only 534 kJ/kg, but they are very reliable and reusable. (They provide auxiliary power for my laptop computer.) The Li-ion batteries can be used as the power source if used up batteries are discarded during the flight. It takes about 300 watts of helicopter power to lift 1 kg of weight. At the beginning of the flight the total weight of the batteries is about one half of the launcher weight. During 15 minutes of vertical flight the helicopter reaches its maximum altitude of 30 km, drops off nearly all its batteries on parachutes, and finally drops off the launcher. When the helicopter descends, most of its propellers (rotors) are used as wind turbines which provide power for the remaining propellers. The last batteries are used up during landing. My laptop batteries cost $418/kg. Assuming payload fraction of 6 percent and total battery weight of one half the launcher weight, the batteries cost 418/0.06/2 = $3483 per kilogram of payload. The capital cost of the batteries may seem rather high, but the batteries are reusable and very easy to use. 3b.Aluminum wires linking the motors with a high voltage generator standing on the ground are expensive and difficult to use. High voltage generators are available from many sources, for example: http://www.kato-eng.com/hacgen.html They cost about $0.1/W. At the payload fraction of 6 percent, the generator cost is about 0.1*300/0.06 = $5556 per kilogram of payload. In the absence of the generator, the power is provided by the grid. The cost of connecting to the grid depends on the distance; electrical utilities charge between $10,000 and $50,000 per kilometer of transmission line. The wires must be reinforced with strong (Zylon) rope and suspended on balloons so that they do not touch the ground. The design of such helicopter is similar to the design of airborne wind turbine generator: http://www.skywindpower.com The helicopter is vulnerable to lightenings and strong winds, so it must fly near the equator (away from the jet streams): http://www.skywindpower.com/ww/page010.htm.
Electric motors powered by batteries are the best choice because they are cheap, reliable, safe, and easy to use. If the helicopter lifts the rocket launcher above the dense part of the atmosphere, the launcher can transport payloads that have low density and large size, for example large space telescope or large greenhouse. THE LAUNCHER SCALES DOWN VERY WELL BECAUSE IT IS REUSABLE AND BECAUSE ITS ATMOSPHERIC DRAG IS NEGLIGABLE. ITS TRUNCATED CONICAL SHAPE LEAVES PLENTY OF ROOM FOR A VERY LARGE EXHAUST NOZZLE WHICH IMPROVES THE EXPANSION RATIO AND SPECIFIC IMPULSE. LAST, BUT NOT LEAST, THE SHAPE OF THE EXHAUST NOZZLE IS OPTIMIZED FOR FLIGHT IN THE VACUUM, BECAUSE IT IS NOT USED IN THE DENSE ATMOSPHERE. This means that a little guy can cobble together a little rocket launcher that has high specific impulse despite its primitive, low-pressure design, and that he can compete on launch cost with the giants of the industry (if he can afford the legal expenses). If the launcher has three stages, only the last stage has to be protected with the expensive composite called reinforced carbon-carbon. The second stage can be protected with a thick coating of silicone rubber. The first stage does not need any thermal protection.
Mike Swift - 18 Jul 2006 10:29 GMT > The rocket launchers are not economical because they > are not reusable. When they reenter the atmosphere, [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > protected with a thick coating of silicone rubber. The first stage > does not need any thermal protection. Ideas similar to this have been proposed in the past. The reason you do not see anyone with money pushing them is that there is at least one element in the plan that has no physical or economic solution. Until a solution to that element is found there is no need to even consider any of the other elements.
In your idea the helicopter seems to me to be one of those difficult elements. You should lookup information on how lift is generated in helicopters, and wing theory. Note that you are especially interested in flight in the very low density air at 30 km. Start with your rocket weight say 40,000 kg and you assume the helicopter, motors, and wires etc are made from that miracle material engineers like to specify, unobtainium. :-) You may find that the blades of the helicopter must be several hundred meters in length before you add the weight of the weight of the other items.
Now go hit the books and report back what you find about the rotor diameter and RPM needed to support the assumed weight of the rocket at the altitude you pick to start the rocket launch at.
 Signature Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire, bread and circuses. Decimus Junius Juvenalls
alexterrell@yahoo.com - 20 Jul 2006 20:29 GMT > In your idea the helicopter seems to me to be one of those difficult > elements. You should lookup information on how lift is generated in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > several hundred meters in length before you add the weight of the weight > of the other items. As I understand it, helicopters are unable to rescue people off Mount Everest, K2 or other mountains. It seems that the Pakistani army has special helicopters that can go up over 6,000 metres.
Damon Hill - 12 Aug 2006 07:18 GMT alexterrell@yahoo.com wrote in news:1153423748.965872.310530 @i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> As I understand it, helicopters are unable to rescue people off Mount > Everest, K2 or other mountains. It seems that the Pakistani army has > special helicopters that can go up over 6,000 metres. A helicopter has recently landed on top of Everest, but I doubt it had any payload beyond the pilot. I didn't think helicopters could go that high myself.
http://www.greatoutdoors.com/published/general/expeditions/helicopteronever estmakeshistory/
--Damon
alexterrell@yahoo.com - 22 Aug 2006 09:59 GMT > alexterrell@yahoo.com wrote in news:1153423748.965872.310530 > @i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > http://www.greatoutdoors.com/published/general/expeditions/helicopteronever > estmakeshistory/ I think the link is wrong - I found it here http://www.greatoutdoors.com/published/climb/expeditions/helicopteroneverestmake shistory/index.html
interesting article
alexterrell@yahoo.com - 22 Aug 2006 10:01 GMT > alexterrell@yahoo.com wrote in news:1153423748.965872.310530 > @i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > --Damon Quote: "The remarkable Eurocopter flight breaks the World Record for the highest altitude landing and take-off ever, for any flying machine on Earth, and sets an undeniable milestone in the history of aviation."
I don't think this record will be beaten any time soon!
Rick Jones - 24 Aug 2006 21:32 GMT > Quote: > "The remarkable Eurocopter flight breaks the World Record for the > highest altitude landing and take-off ever, for any flying machine on > Earth, and sets an undeniable milestone in the history of aviation."
> I don't think this record will be beaten any time soon! Well, of course not - there is no higher place on Earth on which anything could land and subsequently take-off!-)
rick jones
 Signature Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought. these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :) feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...
Andrew Nowicki - 26 Jul 2006 09:41 GMT > Now go hit the books... The physics, in terms of order of magnitude estimate, is trivial. If you had been able to handle high school level physics, you would not have made this comment.
sci.space.policy is a much better place to ask high school level questions than sci.space.tech.
dan - 12 Aug 2006 22:55 GMT Back in the 50's when no one knew if spaceflight was even possible, several tests were made with sounding rockets launched by balloon at high altitude. However the payload capability of even very large balloons declines at extreme altitude, and launching a large balloon is tricky. Because of the long period climbing to launch altitude cryogenic propellants were not practical. Ultimately it was not possible to carry rockets capable of getting into orbit. A similar problem will occur with rotorcraft.
On the other hand, a fixed-wing aircraft.i.e. the B-70, can indeed be designed to carry a large payload at high altitude. While a large blunt cone would have to much drag for external carriage on an aircraft, a saucer-shaped vehicle could be carried and launched edge first and re-enter flat side first; this is pretty much what Rutan's SpaceShip One does with its pivoting tail. This can spread the heating over a large area as with the Apollo Capsule, reducing thermal loads.
Andrew Nowicki - 13 Aug 2006 16:12 GMT > Back in the 50's when no one knew if spaceflight was even possible, > several tests were made with sounding rockets launched by balloon at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > possible to carry rockets capable of getting into orbit. A similar > problem will occur with rotorcraft. It will not.
The helicopter can fly much faster than the balloon. If it flies vertically at the rate of 33 meters per second, it will reach the altitude of 30 kilometers in 15 minutes. Liquid oxygen and liquid methane will not evaporate in 15 minutes.
> On the other hand, a fixed-wing aircraft.i.e. the B-70, can indeed be > designed to carry a large payload at high altitude. While a large blunt [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > One does with its pivoting tail. This can spread the heating over a > large area as with the Apollo Capsule, reducing thermal loads. The airplane is superior to rocket as a means of transportation through the troposphere because it is slower and much more reusable. It is however not as slow as the helicopter, and the separation of the rocket launcher and its cargo from the airplane is tricky due to the aerodynamic drag.
Herman Rubin - 17 Aug 2006 21:20 GMT >> Back in the 50's when no one knew if spaceflight was even possible, >> several tests were made with sounding rockets launched by balloon at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> possible to carry rockets capable of getting into orbit. A similar >> problem will occur with rotorcraft.
>It will not.
>The helicopter can fly much faster than the balloon. >If it flies vertically at the rate of 33 meters per second, >it will reach the altitude of 30 kilometers in 15 minutes. >Liquid oxygen and liquid methane will not evaporate >in 15 minutes. I question whether that rate can be maintained at high altitudes. Both an airplane and a helicopter rely on air (or some other gas) for there to be any power usable for lifting.
>> On the other hand, a fixed-wing aircraft.i.e. the B-70, can indeed be >> designed to carry a large payload at high altitude. While a large blunt [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> One does with its pivoting tail. This can spread the heating over a >> large area as with the Apollo Capsule, reducing thermal loads.
>The airplane is superior to rocket as a means of transportation >through the troposphere because it is slower and much more >reusable. It is however not as slow as the helicopter, and >the separation of the rocket launcher and its cargo from the >airplane is tricky due to the aerodynamic drag. If it can reach 30 kilometers, the drag will be small.
 Signature This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Andrew Nowicki - 23 Aug 2006 14:57 GMT Andrew Nowicki wrote:
> The helicopter can fly much faster than the balloon. > If it flies vertically at the rate of 33 meters per second, > it will reach the altitude of 30 kilometers in 15 minutes. > Liquid oxygen and liquid methane will not evaporate > in 15 minutes.
> I question whether that rate can be maintained at > high altitudes. Both an airplane and a helicopter > rely on air (or some other gas) for there to be > any power usable for lifting. The helicopter needs two sets of propellers/rorors: small propellers used at low altitude and big propellers used at high altitude.
Another option is to use two helicopters having different size propellers: first stage helicopter and second stage helicopter. If we choose this option, there is no need to drop batteries on the parachutes. Andrew Nowicki wrote:
> The airplane is superior to rocket as a means of transportation > through the troposphere because it is slower and much more > reusable. It is however not as slow as the helicopter, and > the separation of the rocket launcher and its cargo from the > airplane is tricky due to the aerodynamic drag.
> If it can reach 30 kilometers, the drag will be small. I disagree. The lift is constant regardless of altitude because the airplane mass is constant. To keep the lift constant you have to fly it faster at high altitude. When you fly faster, you increase both lift and drag. You can increase lift without increasing drag if you have variable geometry wings -- they are common in commercial aircraft. If you want to reduce cargo drag, canard wings are probably better than variable geometry wings. Both methods reduce the cargo drag, but not as much as the helicopter with two sets of wings or the two stages of the helicopters.
I guess you could try using two stages of airplanes: one having small wings and propellers and the other having big wings and propellers. Well... you still cannot beat the helicopter, and dragging the big airplane through the dense troposphere is a major nuisance. It is easier to drag big helicopter propellers through the dense troposphere than the big airplane wings because the propellers are smaller than the wings. Because they are smaller, the can be very flat and yet lightweight. Flat things do not generate much drag. Airplane wings cannot be flat because they are big and because big flat wings would be too weak. This fact is explained by the Cube-Square Law which states that as scale is reduced, properties which are a function of volume (mass) will decrease faster than those which are a function of area (thrust and strength).
Herman Rubin - 26 Aug 2006 21:17 GMT >Andrew Nowicki wrote:
>> The helicopter can fly much faster than the balloon. >> If it flies vertically at the rate of 33 meters per second, >> it will reach the altitude of 30 kilometers in 15 minutes. >> Liquid oxygen and liquid methane will not evaporate >> in 15 minutes.
>> I question whether that rate can be maintained at >> high altitudes. Both an airplane and a helicopter >> rely on air (or some other gas) for there to be >> any power usable for lifting.
>The helicopter needs two sets of propellers/rorors: >small propellers used at low altitude and big >propellers used at high altitude.
>Another option is to use two helicopters having >different size propellers: first stage helicopter >and second stage helicopter. If we choose this >option, there is no need to drop batteries on >the parachutes.
>Andrew Nowicki wrote:
>> The airplane is superior to rocket as a means of transportation >> through the troposphere because it is slower and much more >> reusable. It is however not as slow as the helicopter, and >> the separation of the rocket launcher and its cargo from the >> airplane is tricky due to the aerodynamic drag.
>> If it can reach 30 kilometers, the drag will be small.
>I disagree. The lift is constant regardless of altitude >because the airplane mass is constant. This would be the case if the air density was constant. But it is not; the lift decreases with the density of the surrounding medium, and becomes 0 when there is no density outside.
To keep the lift
>constant you have to fly it faster at high altitude. This is because of decreased pressure.
Present military aircraft may reach somewhat more than 10 km, maybe 15. But at this altitude, air pressure decreases rapidly relatively. I doubt that fuel-only aircraft can reach 30 km.
 Signature This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Mike Swift - 21 Aug 2006 08:43 GMT > > Back in the 50's when no one knew if spaceflight was even possible, > > several tests were made with sounding rockets launched by balloon at [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > the separation of the rocket launcher and its cargo from the > airplane is tricky due to the aerodynamic drag. Andrew, the record altitude that a helicopter has flown with only a pilot is 8,848 meters (29028 feet). To scale this up to a vehicle capable of carrying a rocket of significant weight for say a 1000 kg orbital payload would be akin to scaling up the Golden Gate Bridge to span from San Francisco to Hawaii.
 Signature Mike
Some say we must tax corporations more. What they do not understand is that corporations do not pay taxes. One of our governments conditions for their existence is they collect the taxes from their customers and pass them to the government. Mike Swift
Andrew Nowicki - 24 Aug 2006 23:16 GMT > Andrew, the record altitude that a helicopter has flown with only a > pilot is 8,848 meters (29028 feet). To scale this up to a vehicle > capable of carrying a rocket of significant weight for say a 1000 kg > orbital payload would be akin to scaling up the Golden Gate Bridge to > span from San Francisco to Hawaii. Apparently you have not read the first post of this thread.
The helicopters cannot fly above the altitude of 8,848 meters because their internal combustion engines choke in the thin air. If you replace the engines with electric motors and replace small rotors/propellers with big ones, they can fly much higher.
Allen W. McDonnell - 03 Sep 2006 12:29 GMT >> On the other hand, a fixed-wing aircraft.i.e. the B-70, can indeed be >> designed to carry a large payload at high altitude. While a large blunt [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the separation of the rocket launcher and its cargo from the > airplane is tricky due to the aerodynamic drag. However, so long as the aircraft is designed with a thrust to weigth ratio greater than 1:1 when loaded with the payload at altitude it can hover vertically on its tail during the seperation manuver. The aircraft flies up to launch altitude, goes vertical, releases the payload while hovering. The payload ignites its next stage, the aircraft reduces throttle allowing itself to tip over and power glide most of the way back to the launch site with the engines at idle.
Joe Strout - 18 Jul 2006 10:30 GMT > The conventional rocket launchers are shaped like a > pencil to minimize aerodynamic drag during the first [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of about 30 kilometers) with a balloon or a helicopter. > Hydrogen balloons are cheap, but not reusable. But airships (whether filled with hydrogen or helium) are. Big ones can have a quite impressive lift capacity, too.
Re. helicopters:
> 3. Electric motors are cheap and can operate at the altitude > of 30 km. Their energy source can be either a battery or a > generator standing on the ground [connected by wires]. Did you consider a power source on the ground beaming power to the helicopters in the form of lasers or microwaves?
> Electric motors powered by batteries are the best choice because > they are cheap, reliable, safe, and easy to use. It's an interesting idea, though recovering all those batteries parachuted from 30 km strikes me as a logistical problem, which will therefore drive up the costs. An airship might work better.
Best, - Joe
Andrew Nowicki - 26 Jul 2006 09:41 GMT > But airships (whether filled with hydrogen or helium) are. > Big ones can have a quite impressive lift capacity, too. The problem is how to bring the balloon or the airship back to the earth -- you would have to release lots of expensive hydrogen. The cost of making hydrogen is about 0.7 $/kg, but the cost of liquefying and transporting hydrogen from the oil refinery to the user raises the cost to about 3 $/kg. Hydrogen, like chlorine, is a destroyer of the ozone layer. If the rocket weighs 10 tons, you would spend about $50,000 on the hydrogen alone. Helium is even more expensive.
> Did you consider a power source on the ground beaming power > to the helicopters in the form of lasers or microwaves? Leik N. Myrabo experimented with this idea some 20 years ago. It works, and it is not very expensive. The microwave electronics would cost about $100 per 1kg of the rocket weight. (Batteries cost about $200 per 1kg of the rocket weight.) I did not mention microwaves because the safety concerns would drive up the cost.
The cost of electric motors is only about $30 per 1kg of the rocket weight.
Joe Strout - 12 Aug 2006 22:55 GMT > > But airships (whether filled with hydrogen or helium) are. > > Big ones can have a quite impressive lift capacity, too. > > The problem is how to bring the balloon or the airship > back to the earth -- you would have to release lots of > expensive hydrogen. Why? Normal airships don't release lifting gas; they compress it, by inflating internal bladders with air. I don't see why it should be any different for this application.
> > Did you consider a power source on the ground beaming power > > to the helicopters in the form of lasers or microwaves? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I did not mention microwaves because the safety concerns would > drive up the cost. But they reduce the logistical issues. I wonder whether the safety issues can be mitigated by careful selection of the wavelength used.
Best, - Joe
Andrew Nowicki - 13 Aug 2006 16:12 GMT Andrew Nowicki wrote:
> The problem is how to bring the balloon or the airship > back to the earth -- you would have to release lots of > expensive hydrogen.
> Why? Normal airships don't release lifting gas; they compress it, by > inflating internal bladders with air. I don't see why it should be any > different for this application. I was not familiar with this technology, but it seems that it may be troublesome to use it in a balloon or an airship that reaches the altitude of 30 km. The problem is that atmospheric pressure at the altitude of 30 km is about 100 times lower than the sea level pressure. You would need two bladders: one of them would hold all the helium at the sea level, the other would hold all the helium at the altitude of 30 km. It takes lots of energy to pump all the helium from the big bladder to the small one. Furthermore, as you compress the helium by the factor of 100, it heats up a lot, so you have to cool it. Thin air is not a good coolant, so the cooling is slow. It would be interesting to calculate how much time it would take to compress and cool all the helium.
Andrew Nowicki wrote:
> Leik N. Myrabo experimented with this idea some 20 years ago. > It works, and it is not very expensive. The microwave > electronics would cost about $100 per 1kg of the rocket weight. > (Batteries cost about $200 per 1kg of the rocket weight.) > I did not mention microwaves because the safety concerns would > drive up the cost.
> But they reduce the logistical issues. I wonder whether the safety > issues can be mitigated by careful selection of the wavelength used. There is some info here: http://radsafe.berkeley.edu/nir1101c.html
The idea is not stupid, but it would take some effort to develop this technology. Batteries are probably less efficient, but they are easier to use.
Magnetrons are used to generate long microwaves. Low frequency magnetrons are more efficient than high frequency magnetrons. Microwave ovens have magnetrons which operate at a frequency of 2.45 GHz and have efficiency of about 70%. Magnetrons operating at 915 MHz frequency have efficiency of about 85%. Magnetrons cost about $0.1/W.
Gyrotrons can produce short microwaves (< 3 mm) which are easy to focus into a narrow beam, but their efficiency is low (15%-60%). The maximum frequency is about 170 GHz. Gyrotrons cost about $1/W.
Atmospheric absorption of microwaves: http://www.submm.caltech.edu/cso/weather/atplot.shtml
Jeff Findley - 12 Aug 2006 22:56 GMT >> But airships (whether filled with hydrogen or helium) are. >> Big ones can have a quite impressive lift capacity, too. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > layer. If the rocket weighs 10 tons, you would spend about > $50,000 on the hydrogen alone. Helium is even more expensive. I'd think it would be cheaper to buy kerosene and build a conventional LOX/kerosene first stage than it would be to build and operate an airship big enough to replace said first stage. The airship, after all, is going to be so huge, it would need some big engines of its own just to maneuver back to base once it's launch vehicle has been released.
Jeff
 Signature "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)
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