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How are/were rockets stabilised

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alexterrell@yahoo.com - 02 Nov 2005 09:56 GMT
With the source of thrust so far behind the centre of mass, large
rockets would seem to be unstable in flight. So how is this overcome?

I could imagine a sensitive gyro in the rockets nose, which enables a
microprocessor to calculate the deviation from the planned line of
flight. This then instructs actuators to repoint the engine to
compensate (or a vane to redirect the thrust). Is this broadly how its
done?

If so, how were the early rockets kept in line? A suspect digital
control might have been available for Apollo, but what about the
earlier rockets?
Anvil* - 03 Nov 2005 00:03 GMT
The problem is referred to as a vertical pendulum. Basically like
balancing a
broom in the palm of your hand. You move your hand back and forth to
keep
the broom vertical. The weight being at the top actually reduces the
difficulty.

As to what was before digital, the control was analog and in fact for
simple
systems controlled with a very low parts count and is most often has a
faster response than digital systems. The negatives that have moved
such
systems into disfavor: That your mathematical constants must be know
and
hard-wired into the design, components have to be precision with very
little
drift, and late design changes means tearing open the box to modify the
circuit. To some degree analog components are always in the loop but
mostly to provide the muscle for the digital controls.
Dave - 03 Nov 2005 18:21 GMT
Even the German V2 rocket of the 1940s used a gyroscope. The thrust was
redirected by graphite vanes in the engine exhaust. I'm not sure, but
the control system might have been completely mechanical in that era.

Dave
Steen - 04 Nov 2005 14:09 GMT
> With the source of thrust so far behind the centre of mass, large
> rockets would seem to be unstable in flight. So how is this overcome?

Rocket stability does not depend on where the nozzle is placed. If you look
at Robert Goddards worlds-first liquid fueled rocket:
http://www.epower-propulsion.com/epower/gallery/Hist-Goddard%20Rocket.jpg

you'll see that he placed the nozzle on top, because he believed this to be
crucial for stability. As it turned out, it is irrelevant, where the exhaust
nozzle is placed. Which is why it's always placed on the bottom.

> I could imagine a sensitive gyro in the rockets nose, which enables a
> microprocessor to calculate the deviation from the planned line of
> flight. This then instructs actuators to repoint the engine to
> compensate (or a vane to redirect the thrust). Is this broadly how its
> done?

Sounds good to me :-) Something along those lines, at least.

> If so, how were the early rockets kept in line? A suspect digital
> control might have been available for Apollo, but what about the
> earlier rockets?

Now, basic rocket stability is provided by the airflow over the rocket body
and fins. That's actually the only reason to put fins on a rocket.
Basically, if a rocket's center of gravity is located at least one body
diameter (rule of thumb) in front of the rocket's center of pressure, the
rocket is positively stable, and will direct itself back to its original
path, if diverted. See

Stability of a Model Rocket
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/rktstab.html

Model Rocket Stability
http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/rocket_stability.asp

Fins for Rocket Stability
http://members.aol.com/ricnakk/fins.html

/steen
Jeff Findley - 07 Nov 2005 18:51 GMT
> > With the source of thrust so far behind the centre of mass, large
> > rockets would seem to be unstable in flight. So how is this overcome?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> crucial for stability. As it turned out, it is irrelevant, where the exhaust
> nozzle is placed. Which is why it's always placed on the bottom.

For flight in the atmosphere, it's definately not irrelevant.  In fact, for
atmospheric flight, sticking the engine at the top, like Goddard did,
results in a design that's very easy to make stable.  When you stick the
engine at the bottom, you can often get away without much of a control
system, by adding some fins to the back, which insures that the center of
pressure is below the center of gravity.

However, note that stability does not mean guided.  If you want the rocket
to follow a certain course, or hit a certain target, you'll need an active
control system no matter what.  With an aerodynamically unstable design, the
control system will need to react very quickly.  An aerodynamically stable
design relaxes this considerably.

> > I could imagine a sensitive gyro in the rockets nose, which enables a
> > microprocessor to calculate the deviation from the planned line of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Sounds good to me :-) Something along those lines, at least.

The V2 did essentially the same thing, without the benefit of a
microprocessor.  ;-)

> > If so, how were the early rockets kept in line? A suspect digital
> > control might have been available for Apollo, but what about the
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Fins for Rocket Stability
> http://members.aol.com/ricnakk/fins.html

But this still isn't the same as active guidance.  A good stiff crosswind
will send an aerodynamically stable rocket off course.  If I remember my
model rocket terminology, this is called shuttlecocking.  I believe the
larger the fins, the larger the shuttlecocking in a crosswind.

Jeff
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alexterrell@yahoo.com - 08 Nov 2005 08:58 GMT
Thanks for that. So 2 questions:

1. How is stability provided at low velocity / start, when air flow is
negligible?

2. Did the V2 use an electrical guidance system?

When I come some digitally controlled system, I'm always amazed at the
ingenuity of those that made the system before microprocessors, using
analogue control.
Rick Jones - 08 Nov 2005 19:02 GMT
> When you stick the engine at the bottom, you can often get away
> without much of a control system, by adding some fins to the back,
> which insures that the center of pressure is below the center of
> gravity.

One can insure a rocket - for a price - but that does not ensure that
the fins will work :) (Sorry, could not resist :)

rick jones
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Manfred Bartz - 08 Nov 2005 07:28 GMT
> With the source of thrust so far behind the centre of mass, large
> rockets would seem to be unstable in flight. So how is this overcome?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> control might have been available for Apollo, but what about the
> earlier rockets?

>From <http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/v2.htm>:

   The development of the V-2 guidance system evolved as follows:

   * The A3 system

   * The Sg 52 platform and control system developed for the A5 in
     1938-39 This was a stable control system based on rate gyros,
     but was found not to be an ideal solution

   * The Sg 64 improved system developed for the A5 and tested in
     launches

   * The Sg 66 developed by Kreiselgeraete in 1940-42 for the
     A4. This electromechanical control system used unbalanced gyro
     accelerometers and a 'Mischgeraet' (mixing device) to combine
     inputs, thereby eliminating the need for rate gyros. However
     Kreiselgeraete was only experienced in naval equipment, and
     applying the principle to rocket guidance was completely foreign
     to them. Neverthelss, since Kreiselgeraete was a small company,
     they could respond with flexibility and speed to the rocket
     team's requests.

     Siemens developed an alternate system based on two gyros to
     determine attitude and follow a fixed-plane pitch program. The
     Siemens system was favored up to mid-1942 due to its production
     simplicity. Siemens also had a greater manufacturing and
     technical capacity. But its large size made it unresponsive to
     the rapid pace of development. A surplus Siemens guidance
     system, or an American copy, was used for the Explorer I launch
     in 1958.

   A third system by Askania-Moeller was briefly put into
   development, but quickly abandoned.

   * The Kreiselgeraete Sg 70 platform was designed as a replacement
     for the Sg 66 to eliminate aluminum gimbals in
     1944-1945. Kreiselgeraete's development labs were evacuated to
     Sudetenland in 1943 after air raids in Berlin, impacting
     development after that date.
 
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