snip snip ...
"Zoltan Szakaly" <zoltanccc@aol.com> wrote in message > I want to come clear
here, the reason I am so interested in this
> because I have an engine that has a high Isp (over 4,000) and is light
> weight and cheap so it can achieve a thrust to weight of 100. (I
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Zoltan
I've posted an idea for a peroxide powered turbo-prop vtol spaceplane on the
halfbakery website at:
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/propeller_2frocket_20plane
I've included a link to an aerobatic plane that can fly vertically in
sustained flight (someone else has included a link to a biplane equivalent),
a link to Glen Olson's pogo page and a link to Armadillo Aerospace but i
couldn't find a link to a self standing, simple explanation of a 'walter
style' peroxide turbine. Does anyone know of a site which I could include a
link to?
Toby
gg - 30 Aug 2003 21:42 GMT
> I've posted an idea for a peroxide powered turbo-prop vtol spaceplane on the
> halfbakery website at:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> style' peroxide turbine. Does anyone know of a site which I could include a
> link to?
I found a link to a rocket-turbine car. The engine was a gas-generator
powered turbine drive called a turbonique.
http://www.almar.easynet.be/turbonique.htm
Does anyone know if anyone ever tried puting one of these engines in a
plane (either to power a propeller or a ducted fan)?
> Toby
zoltanccc@aol.com (Zoltan Szakaly) :
> Jet engine:
> Isp= 5,000 Thrust to weight: 10
>
> Rocket engine:
> Isp= 350 Thrust to weight: 100
Rocket system ok but does not account for gravity losses or air drag.
> There are clearly variations but these are somewhat representative
> numbers. The jet engine's weight limits the mass ratio that can be
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> the velocity increment achieved would be between 7,280 and 10,300
> m/sec
Jet Design mass ratio ok. Lets assume it lifts at .5 G away from Earth, the
mass ratio is not going to change much with the claimed ISP
> The air breathing engine based vehicle would have a mass fraction of
> between 0.73 and 0.8 and the velocity increment would be 64,222 to
> 78,942 m/sec
>
> Clearly the air breathing engine wins. Of course I assumed no air drag
> here.
Really, after 100 seconds if your jet works as claimed if you went straight
up you would be at 49 kilometers where no jet engine would work well. But
your speed would be only 500 meters per second, you still need those rockets,
but now you mass ratio is far worse.
> I want to come clear here, the reason I am so interested in this
> because I have an engine that has a high Isp (over 4,000) and is light
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> development of a flying car but I am hoping to also use the engine as
> a first stage engine to put payloads into orbit.
Try for the flying car, it should always be flying relatively low, but I
think you need to fly it (your engine design) to see the real results.
> I think the air breather wins no matter what somebody just needs to
> have enough balls to build one and fly it.
I think you need to do a lot more math modelling, it just can't work once you
climb high enought, and you can't get the speed if you fly low enough.
> Zoltan
Earl Colby Pottinger

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Zoltan Szakaly - 22 Aug 2003 02:29 GMT
>Earl Colby Pottinger <earlcp@idirect.com> wrote in message
>
>Really, after 100 seconds if your jet works as claimed if you went straight
>up you would be at 49 kilometers where no jet engine would work well.
But
>your speed would be only 500 meters per second, you still need those rockets,
>but now you mass ratio is far worse.
>
>news:<vk9n7sjr8at3d2@corp.supernews.com>...
>
> Earl Colby Pottinger
My plan is to start vertically and then pitch over to say 45 degrees
and sustain 4G acceleration for about 70 seconds. This gets me near
mach 8, or 2,700 m/s speed. Somewhere between mach 6 and 8 I close the
air inlets and use oxidizer injection. (Here we are no longer talking
about a turbine engine, the vehicle under discussion is my ramjet
based SSTO) After mach 8 I clearly use the ramjet in pure rocket mode.
The SR71 uses turbines but it switches to ramjet mode at some
speed/altitude.
My "poor man's rocket" would simply be a suborbital spaceplane that
uses turbine jet engines with air first and oxidizer injection later.
Zoltan