"Off the shelf" heavy lift???

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Phil Paisley - 08 Nov 2003 23:12 GMT

Take 2 Shuttle SRBs, possibly the 5 segment ones that were just
tested. Hang a Delta 4 core between them (gonna look odd, but no
odder than a Titan 4). Change the nozzles on the Delta 4 core for an
altitude start. Possibly add a big 6m fairing for those ISS sized
payloads. Maybe change the propellant pack on the SRBs for a gentler
liftoff (this thing is going to fly off the pad with a thrust to
weight ratio like that?). Light the stack off Titan 4 style - just
the SRBs from the pad. Shed the solids. Light the Delta core at
altitude Titan style.

How much will this thing loft to LEO as a stage and a half stack?
What about with the whole current Delta 4 Heavy core (2.5 stage
stack)?? How much might it loft to TLI, Mars etc. esp if a bigger
upper stage was used?

Just musing....not that there's any payloads for such a beastie ATM.
And it wouldn't be man rated of course, but.....

Phil

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Ruediger Klaehn - 10 Nov 2003 11:24 GMT

> Take 2 Shuttle SRBs, possibly the 5 segment ones that were just
> tested. Hang a Delta 4 core between them (gonna look odd, but no
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the SRBs from the pad. Shed the solids. Light the Delta core at
> altitude Titan style.

I think the best way to get heavy lift would be to use three Zenit Sea
Launch first stages in a EELV heavy type configuration. The Zenit first
stage was designed as a booster for the energia rocket, so it should be
rugged enough to be used like that.

If you want some really insanely large payload, just use seven Zenit first
stages. Four of them burn full power and are dropped quite early, two more
act as second stages, and the last one burns its propellant really slow and
flies to orbit. Since the Zenit first stage is very rugged, it would make a
great space station module.

Now the only thing we have to figure out is what should be the payload.... I
vote for a huge space tether like this: <http://www.tethers.com/papers
MXERJPC2003Paper.pdf>

best regards,

Ruediger

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ed kyle - 10 Nov 2003 15:13 GMT

> Take 2 Shuttle SRBs, possibly the 5 segment ones that were just
> tested. Hang a Delta 4 core between them (gonna look odd, but no
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> How much will this thing loft to LEO as a stage and a half stack?

With just a Delta IV CCB, I get about 29 metric tons to LEO
(200 km x 27 deg. from Canaveral). With a 5 meter Delta IV
second stage added, I get more than 40 metric tons
(maybe up to 44) to the same orbit, maybe 15 tons to GTO,
and maybe 12 tons into Solar Orbit.

This assumes standard SRBs, which would probably have to be
tamed down for this application. Both Delta IV stages would
surely have to be beefed up, adding mass and reducing
payload from these numbers to the extent that the 1.5 stage
variant would probably have no advantage over Delta IV-H
(but would probably cost more).

I didn't look into whether this thing would shake itself
apart due to high g-loads.

- Ed Kyle

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Treez03 - 23 Nov 2003 06:49 GMT

If takeoff acceleration is too high, consider side-mounting the Delta core on a
single SRB. A relatively heavy strongback between the forward and aft SRB
attach points would serve to carry the SRB thrust loads to the base of the
Delta core so it would feel thrust loads more or less as designed. Since the
strongback weight is associated with the first stage, payload penalty would be
minimal.

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Space Forum / Space Flight / November 2003

"Off the shelf" heavy lift???