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Space Forum / SETI / May 2004Astropulse and BOINC
Can someone clarify the distinction between these 2 clients? From what I've read, BOINC is a different code which does SETI-at-home? While Astropulse is looking for black hole evaporation? Thanks in advance, sweet http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/ ==================================== BHE: that's when a black hole absorbs the one particle, of a particle/antiparticle pair, which travelled into the event horizon, while the other "merrily scooted off into the proverbial metaphorical universal sunset." :) Antiparticle: all the signs of the particle's quantum numbers are reversed. Thus, a positron (+q) is the antiparticle of the electron (-q). ==================================== BOINC is the client that will run many applications, AstroPulse is one as is SETI II. See http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/ap/  SignatureMike Bader Join our International team http://www.setiathome.us http://www.boinc.us No of SETI units returned: 27918 Processing time: 49 years, 147 days, 16 hours. (Total hours: 432784) > Can someone clarify the distinction between these 2 clients? From what I've > read, BOINC is a different code which does SETI-at-home? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks in advance, > sweet So why do BOINC? Isn't it just re-chewing the same data? > BOINC is the client that will run many applications, AstroPulse is one as is > SETI II. See [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks in advance, > > sweet http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/boinc_transition_plan.html Why is SETI@home switching to BOINC? Several reasons: BOINC transparently and securely downloads new application versions. This lets us upgrade and extend SETI@home without requiring you to download and install new software. It will make it easy for us to integrate new algorithms, such as analyzing our 8 bit/sample reobservation data, or looking for other types of radio signals such as short pulses from evaporating black holes. BOINC has a more flexible data architecture than SETI@home Classic. Data can be transferred to and from multiple servers, and can remain resident on PC disks. In the future, we'll use these capabilities to search for ET signals in a much larger radio frequency range. BOINC distributes work based on host parameters. Work units requiring 512 MB of RAM, for example, will only be sent to hosts having at least that much RAM. This lets us use BOINC for a wider range of computations than the "one size fits all" SETI@home Classic. Eventually other distributed computing projects (like Folding@home and ClimatePrediction.net) will also use BOINC, and you'll be able to share your computer time among projects of your choosing. SignatureMike Bader Join our International team http://www.setiathome.us http://www.boinc.us No of SETI units returned: 27918 Processing time: 49 years, 147 days, 16 hours. (Total hours: 432784) > So why do BOINC? Isn't it just re-chewing the same data? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > > http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/ap/ I want my computer to work only on BHE. I haven't seen a way to make sure it does. IS there a way? > http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/boinc_transition_plan.html > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > > > > > http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/ap/ Right now you get the first available project. It will switch between AstroPulse and SETI II as needed. Once the final release is out you will have more control, and can specify. SignatureMike Bader Join our International team http://www.setiathome.us http://www.boinc.us No of SETI units returned: 27948 Processing time: 49 years, 157 days, 9 hours. (Total hours: 433017) > I want my computer to work only on BHE. I haven't seen a way to make sure it > does. IS there a way? sweeeet :) > Right now you get the first available project. > It will switch between AstroPulse and SETI II as needed. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it > > does. IS there a way? The Boinc program is still in Beta!!!! Give it a chance. Mike Bader gave you the long range forecasts for the program not the ready right now capabilities. As soon as it goes live the other parts will be worked on with more fervor. Don't get me wrong here the program is VERY good right now, it just has some issues that the programmers are working on so the 5 million registered Seti users won't have to face when the program goes "live". They have to test the servers ability to respond to well over a million requests a day for data, give out new and recive processed units, and keep track of all that returned data, etc., etc., etc. Oh and don't forget the multiple OS's people use! Right now today, Boinc only gives out what the programmers are working on. In the future Boinc will be expanded so you and I can choose what programs we want to contribute our unused computer cycles too. We reportedly will also be able to divide the computers time between several at the same time. Meaning that we can choose for instance Folding@home and Climate Prediction and then give one 60% and the other 40% of our cycles, or whatever combination we choose. There will be, as Mike said, several choices and perhaps even some that haven't gone into production yet. The Boinc part of the program will be released freely and then other programs will be able to input there own program for us to give our cycles too. We could for instance have the choice to work on anti-viral drugs, the origins of life, the formation of the cosmos, anything that programmers/companies think that our unused cycles could be of assistance too. Maybe even finally the solution of Pi to the final digits, or at least to the point where it starts repeating. >I want my computer to work only on BHE. I haven't seen a way to make sure it >does. IS there a way? [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> > > >> > > http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/ap/ > The Boinc program ... - - - c u t - - - > ... just has some issues that the > programmers are working on so the 5 million registered Seti users > won't have to face when the program goes "live". Ummm, I was one of those 5 million. You raised some questions. Will the classic SETI users be transported over to BOINC? If so, will our stats be kept current? If so, what about my 5000+ completed wu's, can they be added to the BOINC effort? (Don't get me wrong, the science comes first, but the numbers are nice also. :) - - - c u t - - - Signaturesweet http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/ >> The Boinc program ... >- - - c u t - - - [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >- - - c u t - - - You will be contacted and told when to switch over, I am not sure the actual way of telling is finalised yet. No the stats will not carry over, different project different way of keeping stats. The "powers that be" are deciding how to reward people for putting time in on Seti Classic, they are thinking currently of putting a line in your personal stats that reflects the different ways you have helped the projects. No decisions have been made on how or even whether to do this yet. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message > Ummm, I was one of those 5 million. You raised some questions. Will the > classic SETI users be transported over to BOINC? If so, will our stats be > kept current? If so, what about my 5000+ completed wu's, can they be added > to the BOINC effort? (Don't get me wrong, the science comes first, but the > numbers are nice also. :) The credit system in boinc is farrr different than it is with classic SETI@Home. In classic S@H, you're given one point per workunit, period. With Boinc, things are a bit more complicated. The boinc core client (which controls applications like seti@home and astropulse) detects how fast your computer is, then how long it takes the application (SETI@home) to complete a workunit and claims a certain amount of credit based upon the two variables. After a few results come in, the server then grants a certain amount of credit based upon various results. Now, credit ranking is based on one of two things, depending on where you look. It's based on Recent Average Credit (RAC) or total credit. Recent Average Credit essentially tells you how much work your computer has been doing lately... it's based on a sliding scale with results returned today having much more weight than results returned a while ago. I prefer looking at RAC over Total Credit. Most people play the rank game with RAC anyway as it's easier to change quickly. The current top team, considered #1 by most (we just passed the French and German teams), has a RAC of roughly 500 points more than the French team, but we have roughly half the total credit. :-) Anyway... boinc is currently beta. It's in a late beta stage, I wouldn't be surprised to see it released in a month. Give it a shot if you have the time. Stop by #boinc on irc.freenode.net, too. Happy crunching... SignatureRob | If not safe, Email and Jabber: | one can never be free. athlonrob at axpr dot net | holy maceral... sounds like a committee got hold of the complex equation: 1 = 1 :/ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Happy crunching... > The Boinc program is still in Beta!!!! Give it a chance. > Mike Bader gave you the long range forecasts for the program not the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > the solution of Pi to the final digits, or at least to the point where > it starts repeating. Um, Pi is transcendental. That means it never finishes or repeats. SignatureHenry Goodman henry dot goodman at virgin dot net Henry Goodman adjusted his tin foil beanie and asbestos underwear to write: > Um, Pi is transcendental. That means it never finishes or repeats. Has that been proven yet? SignatureMark Iligitimi Non Carborundum! Twixt hill and high water, N.Wales, UK onfxvgpnvfr-ng-tzk-qbg-pb-hx > Henry Goodman adjusted his tin foil beanie and asbestos underwear to > write: > > > Um, Pi is transcendental. That means it never finishes or repeats. > > Has that been proven yet? Yes. I think in the 18th century. (Hardy's "Pure Mathematics " says that pi was proved to be transcendental by Lambert in1761) SignatureHenry Goodman henry dot goodman at virgin dot net > > Henry Goodman adjusted his tin foil beanie and asbestos underwear to > > write: > > > > > > Um, Pi is transcendental. That means it never finishes or repeats. Not quite. See below. > > Has that been proven yet? > > Yes. I think in the 18th century. (Hardy's "Pure Mathematics " says > that pi was proved to be transcendental by Lambert in1761) No; that was Ferdinand Lindemann, in 1882. Johann Lambert's proof was of the *irrationality* of pi -- but you're right to mention his result in this context because it indeed established that pi "never finishes or repeats". The transcendental numbers are a subset of the irrationals; what distinguishes them is that they are not roots of any algebraic equation. The square root of 2 is an example of an irrational number that is *not* transcendental; while its decimal representation never repeats, it *can* be (easily) constructed with a compass and straight-edge. OTOH 'squaring the circle' is impossible because pi is transcendental. See <http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Pi.html> and <http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TranscendentalNumber.html>. SignatureOdysseus 17# @ 38Y > > > Henry Goodman adjusted his tin foil beanie and asbestos underwear to > > > write: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > <http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TranscendentalNumber.html>. Very interesting. Your sources certainly say that Lambert only proved pi to be irrational. When I read pure maths at Cambridge some 50 years ago Hardy was considered to be the main text book (I notice it is still available on Amazon). On rereading page 70 of Hardy I agree that he says Lambert proved only that it was irrational (by means of continued fractions). SignatureHenry Goodman henry dot goodman at virgin dot net >> > > Henry Goodman adjusted his tin foil beanie and asbestos >underwear to [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >he says Lambert proved only that it was irrational (by means of >continued fractions). Um look here: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Pi.html In part it says: Pi is known to be irrational (Lambert 1761; Legendre 1794; Hermite 1873; Nagell 1951; Niven 1956; Struik 1969; Königsberger 1990; Schröder 1993; Stevens 1999; Borwein and Bailey 2003, pp. 139-140). In 1794, Legendre also proved that Pisquared is irrational (Wells 1986, p. 76). Pi is also transcendental (Lindemann 1882). An immediate consequence of Lindemann's proof of the transcendence of also proved that the geometric problem of antiquity known as circle squaring is impossible. A simplified, but still difficult, version of Lindemann's proof is given by Klein (1955). The actual web page has symbols and links. Henry Goodman adjusted his tin foil beanie and asbestos underwear to write: > Yes. I think in the 18th century. (Hardy's "Pure Mathematics " says > that pi was proved to be transcendental by Lambert in1761) Whoops! apologise are in order ( total brain fart here :) was thinking back to another discussion which had nothing at all to do with pi, my lonely brain cell must have gone off on another tangent :) SignatureMark Iligitimi Non Carborundum! Twixt hill and high water, N.Wales, UK onfxvgpnvfr-ng-tzk-qbg-pb-hx >http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/boinc_transition_plan.html > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >looking for other types of radio signals such as short pulses from >evaporating black holes. Maybe I'm paranoid, maybe I have too much experience with Microsoft and sloppy programmers, but this auto-updating really bothers me. It never fails. You install new software, and something goes wrong. Especially if you're on the leading edge ("they're selling that stuff already?"), or the trailing edge ("people still use those antiques?"). Of course, other issues would be whether or not the client could be "tricked" into downloading a fake update or higher security installations not allowing software that updates itself. I trust Seti@home more than I trust Microsoft, but I'm still not sure if that's enough for me to install Boinc. - --- Norman Please reply via group. E-mail ID does not exist. >>http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/boinc_transition_plan.html >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Norman >Please reply via group. E-mail ID does not exist. This has been addressed already by the Boinc team, they will let you turn off, it is on by default, the autoupdate feature but after a period of time after an update has been sent out, which is yet to be determined, your computer will stop getting units to process. They are talking a week MAX! However this is under discussion by the engineers. You and I can no longer have input into the decision, they have heard it all and are trying to resolve the Science versus the security. Seems lots of people also run this in a business environment and WILL NOT let others upgrade their machines. An email will be sent to those that do not upgrade, probably within a couple of days. Lots more work for the Berkeley people, returned emails etc. but they are trying! |
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