Seti Needs Help
|
|
Thread rating:  |
houndnews@gmail.com - 06 Jan 2008 18:24 GMT http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help
More data = more crunchers
"A New Deluge of Data from Arecibo
The Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico, which is the largest radio telescope in the world and was seen by many movie-goers in the 1997 film Contact, has recently received an upgrade that allows it 40 times more frequency coverage and seven regions of the sky simultaneously rather than one. This upgrade has generated 500 times more SETI data than before. Chief Project Scientist Dan Werthimer explains that "That means we are 500 times more likely to find ET than with the original SETI@home.""
Wayne Brown - 07 Jan 2008 17:31 GMT houndnews@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf-9860-7c8cc13fe83b@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti:
> http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > means we are 500 times more likely to find ET than with the original > SETI@home."" I'll be glad to help, as soon as they release a client that installs and runs just like the old SETI@home client. But as long as BOINC is required, there's no way I'll resume my participation.
 Signature Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> (HPCC #1104)
Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.") from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
riserman - 07 Jan 2008 17:57 GMT > houndnews@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf-9860-7c8cc13fe83b@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti: >> http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > and runs just like the old SETI@home client. But as long as BOINC is > required, there's no way I'll resume my participation. Wayne,
What's wrong with BOINC? I've been running SETI and another project using BOINC (with current updates) and have no complaints at all. Was the "old SETI@home faster?
riserman
Odysseus - 09 Jan 2008 07:26 GMT <snip>
> > I'll be glad to help, as soon as they release a client that installs > > and runs just like the old SETI@home client. But as long as BOINC is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > using BOINC (with current updates) and have no complaints at all. Was > the "old SETI@home faster? It did something like one-tenth the analysis that the current app does, and with no provision for cross-checking the results.
Wayne will be waiting indefinitely. Without BOINC the S@h project would have died two or three years ago due to lack of funding (it's barely getting by now, more or less on BOINC's coattails), and it's extremely unlikely that we'll see a stand-alone client again.
See <http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/~mattl/facts.php>.
 Signature Odysseus
Wayne Brown - 11 Jan 2008 20:12 GMT riserman <riserman@optonline.net> wrote <47826816$0$13897$607ed4bc@cv.net> in sci.astro.seti:
>> houndnews@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf-9860-7c8cc13fe83b@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti: >>> http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > using BOINC (with current updates) and have no complaints at all. Was > the "old SETI@home faster? It's overkill. I don't want some complex system designed to run multiple projects. The Classic client was a simple, standalone, easy-to-install program. BOINC requires all sorts of configuration that wasn't necessary with the old client.
All that interests me is an executable file that I can drop into the same directory where the Classic client was installed and have it work with my old scripts with no changes needed. That's not how BOINC works, and so I'm not interested.
 Signature Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> (HPCC #1104)
Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.") from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
Jim Shaffer - 12 Jan 2008 02:56 GMT >All that interests me is an executable file that I can drop into the >same directory where the Classic client was installed and have it work >with my old scripts with no changes needed. That's not how BOINC works, >and so I'm not interested. Scripts? With the BOINC manager, you don't need scripts.
Wayne Brown - 15 Jan 2008 17:03 GMT Jim Shaffer <jmshaffer@alltel.net> wrote <r1bgo3t16e7658r3tasmc5mnmkhucp711l@4ax.com> in sci.astro.seti:
>>All that interests me is an executable file that I can drop into the >>same directory where the Classic client was installed and have it work >>with my old scripts with no changes needed. That's not how BOINC works, >>and so I'm not interested. > > Scripts? With the BOINC manager, you don't need scripts. But I already have them. They're automated as cron jobs so I don't have to look at them or pay any attention to them. With the old client, I could forget about it and let it run for weeks at a time without thinking about it. That doesn't seem to be the case with BOINC.
I spent considerable time and effort getting my systems set up to run Seti@home without any monitoring or intervention from me. Essentially, I'm not interested in doing anything with SETI that requires changing the way my systems work or learning anything new about the software. Unpacking the occasional update into the installation directory is the only involvement I'm willing to have with running it.
 Signature Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> (HPCC #1104)
Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.") from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
Odysseus - 18 Jan 2008 10:20 GMT <snip>
> I spent considerable time and effort getting my systems set up to run > Seti@home without any monitoring or intervention from me. Essentially, > I'm not interested in doing anything with SETI that requires changing > the way my systems work or learning anything new about the software. > Unpacking the occasional update into the installation directory is the > only involvement I'm willing to have with running it. Most of my BOINC installations run unattended for weeks at a time; the only settings I've changed for many months are the resource shares for my evolving mix of projects, and the like -- aside from the alpha and beta projects, which require closer monitoring, as one might expect. As for updating science applications, BOINC does that automatically as long as you're using the 'stock' version supplied by a given project. (I run third-party optimized SETI@home Enhanced apps, tailored to specific CPUs, which do require manual updating from time to time -- but that's my choice.)
Updating the BOINC client must be done by the user, for security reasons, but such updates are rarely mandatory. The minimum recommended version for the S@h project (BOINC v5.2.6 -- the current official download is at around v5.10.30) is about two years old now, but quite a few users are still running much older ones. For most it truly is 'install-&-forget'.
Bottom line: I only tinker with BOINC as much as I feel like doing.
 Signature Odysseus
Matt Giwer - 08 Jan 2008 10:38 GMT > houndnews@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf-9860-7c8cc13fe83b@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti: >> http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > and runs just like the old SETI@home client. But as long as BOINC is > required, there's no way I'll resume my participation. While I like the Purity of Our Essence as much as the next guy, BOINC is a generalization of the concept proven by SETI@HOME. If you run it and only subscribe to S@H it is no different from the original S@H. I don't see your problem.
 Signature Palestine/Israel is simple. Moslems want their property back. Jews want to steal more. That is all you need to know to understand everything that is happening. -- The Iron Webmaster, 3912 http://www.giwersworld.org a1
Wayne Brown - 11 Jan 2008 20:12 GMT Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.remover.rr.com> wrote <47835788$0$7220$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> in sci.astro.seti:
>> houndnews@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf-9860-7c8cc13fe83b@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti: >>> http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > subscribe to S@H it is no different from the original S@H. I don't see your > problem. Can you spend 30 seconds unpacking it into the same directory as the old client, and then ignore it until the next update comes along, like I used to do with the Classic client? No, because BOINC doesn't work that way, so I don't want it on my systems.
 Signature Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> (HPCC #1104)
Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.") from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
Matt Giwer - 12 Jan 2008 04:45 GMT > Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.remover.rr.com> wrote <47835788$0$7220$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> in sci.astro.seti: >>> houndnews@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf-9860-7c8cc13fe83b@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> subscribe to S@H it is no different from the original S@H. I don't see your >> problem.
> Can you spend 30 seconds unpacking it into the same directory as the old > client, and then ignore it until the next update comes along, like I used > to do with the Classic client? No, because BOINC doesn't work that way, > so I don't want it on my systems. What you do not want you will not have. However your reasons are nonsense.
 Signature Don't let the weather spoil your Holocaust Day Bar-B-Que plans. -- The Iron Webmaster, 3916 http://www.giwersworld.org a1
Jan Knutar - 12 Jan 2008 17:32 GMT > What you do not want you will not have. However your reasons are nonsense. The guy has a point. The classic client was quick to setup, requiring zero thought. If it takes too many clicks and too many questions need to be answered by the user, then the amount of users who give up or quit halfway through will increase. The devoted fancrowd will always go through all the extra steps and do whatever it takes, but the big masses wont. It's an important point to consider if one wants more people to analyze workunits.
Jacob Krolo - 12 Jan 2008 21:14 GMT The guy has a point. The classic client was quick to setup, requiring zero thought.
Yes, and I'll be glad to help and employ extra PC capacities, but I must agree with Wayne Brown when he says, 'as long as BOINC is required, there's no way to resume participation. On 23rd of Dec. 2005., my computers stopped processing Seti@Home Classic Work Units and that was it.
Jan Knutar is absolutely right with his conclusion (It's an important point to consider if one wants more people to analyze workunits.)
Jacob
Matt Giwer - 13 Jan 2008 07:17 GMT >> What you do not want you will not have. However your reasons are nonsense.
> The guy has a point. The classic client was quick to setup, requiring zero > thought. If it takes too many clicks and too many questions need to be > answered by the user, then the amount of users who give up or quit halfway > through will increase. The devoted fancrowd will always go through all the > extra steps and do whatever it takes, but the big masses wont. It's an > important point to consider if one wants more people to analyze workunits. Perhaps my memory is failing. However I put switching almost to the end for the problems I was reading about here and as I had four machines to keep working at the time. But when I got around to do it I recall no problems doing so. Boinc is a separate product. Once installed do not see any difference between the old and new S@H steps to set up. Boinc was trivial on linux.
 Signature If Ron Paul is doing well after Super Tuesday he will soon die of natural causes. In politics, assassination is a natural cause. -- The Iron Webmaster, 3911 http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/holo-survivors.phtml a3
Wayne Brown - 15 Jan 2008 17:03 GMT Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.remover.rr.com> wrote <4789bb4d$0$5105$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> in sci.astro.seti:
> Perhaps my memory is failing. However I put switching almost to the end for the > problems I was reading about here and as I had four machines to keep working at > the time. But when I got around to do it I recall no problems doing so. Boinc is > a separate product. Once installed do not see any difference between the old and > new S@H steps to set up. Boinc was trivial on linux. Can you leave it running for weeks or months at a time without paying any attention to it at all, or even remembering it's there?
 Signature Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> (HPCC #1104)
Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.") from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
Matt Giwer - 16 Jan 2008 03:30 GMT > Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.remover.rr.com> wrote <4789bb4d$0$5105$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> in sci.astro.seti: >> Perhaps my memory is failing. However I put switching almost to the end for the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Can you leave it running for weeks or months at a time without paying > any attention to it at all, or even remembering it's there? I do exactly that. It is often a week or two between checking if it is working. It has always been working. And a couple years ago that was true running on three machines at one time. The fact that I wanted to run it on several machines and concern over having to take care of it is why I did not install it until about a month before the original version was going off-line.
Arcie - 20 Jan 2008 18:04 GMT Yes BOINC runs without my attention continuously. I haven't bother the settings in 4 months. Only check to see how much work I have completed. I am running 10 different @home projects at once and Seti@home functions like the classic version or better in my opinion. Setup was not as complicated as everyone seems to make it. At my house I have BOINC running on a linux system using Kubuntu, everything is fine....
> Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.remover.rr.com> wrote <4789bb4d$0$5105$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> in sci.astro.seti: >> Perhaps my memory is failing. However I put switching almost to the end for the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Can you leave it running for weeks or months at a time without paying > any attention to it at all, or even remembering it's there? Wayne Brown - 22 Jan 2008 17:03 GMT Arcie <arciemizelle@frontiernet.net> wrote <n2Mkj.2533$7d1.221@news01.roc.ny> in sci.astro.seti:
> Yes BOINC runs without my attention continuously. I haven't bother the > settings in 4 months. Only check to see how much work I have completed. Well, that's good. It removes *one* of the objections I have to BOINC.
> I am running 10 different @home projects at once and Seti@home > functions like the classic version or better in my opinion. Setup was > not as complicated as everyone seems to make it. At my house I have > BOINC running on a linux system using Kubuntu, everything is fine.... Not only do I not want to run "10 different @home projects at once," I don't even want the software I use to have the capability to do that. I want one simple little client that does one job, like the old client used to do. The whole point of BOINC is to provide a framework for running multiple projects, and I don't want any part of that -- just as I refuse to have a phone that also takes pictures or plays music.
Also, whether setup is complicated or not isn't the issue; there shouldn't be any setup needed at all. I've already gone to the trouble of setting up the Classic client years ago, and any replacement should just drop into that already-set-up environment and work with absolutely zero changes needed to make it work. Any setup required beyond unpacking a tar file in the same directory where the Classic client was installed is out of the question for me.
 Signature Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> (HPCC #1104)
Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.") from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
Trevor - 13 Jan 2008 20:36 GMT > Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.remover.rr.com> wrote <47835788$0$7220$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> in sci.astro.seti: >>> houndnews@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf-9860-7c8cc13fe83b@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > to do with the Classic client? No, because BOINC doesn't work that way, > so I don't want it on my systems. I agree with Wayne here, I run BOINC because I like helping on the project, actually I'm in both SETI@home and Rosetta@home but the old days were nice. It seems like I have to constantly "check up" on BOINC and make sure its functioning and then report finished chunks and make sure that things are downloading properly. Plus I like having the old graphical screensaver. The new graphics move around too much purely for effect and the BOINC screensaver is quite boring.
Jonathan Bennett - 16 Jan 2008 19:48 GMT Guys, take a step back and look at the bigger picture here for a minute. Sure, running software on our systems that either eats up all our systems resources, or eats up all our time working on installations or maintenance can come with its drawbacks. But, the most important thing is that we all have the same aims, the same goals, and the same prize placed ahead of us.
The systems that run at Arecibo are so much more time consuming, resource consuming, and cash consuming than simple applications like BOINC that can run on platforms like MS Windows or Linux. We all know that the more advances we make into radio telescope and spectral analysis technologies will come with their highs and lows. If every time we came across a hurdle in the SETI, we just moaned about how difficult it is/was; or time consuming it may be, we will never make that all important discovery.
We all know that working with computers can be challenging at times. Sometimes, working with computers can be so frustrating that we just want to throw in the towel. The one thing that we all know is that, even through all the tough times we go through with the systems we use can be tough, when we get the outcome we expected, and the reaction we wanted, it makes all the coding, tweaking, and debugging even more sweeter!
So the new S@H software is a little tough to get running. That doesn't change the way that the SETI has been coordinated. Being faced with removal of project funding, complications of running radio telescopes of that magnitude, and the approach that most of the borderline "skeptic believers" take towards the SETI, people like Seth Shostak take it on the chin and keep on pushing until there's no more room to push.
There's one thing I have to say to you all...
One day, we as a species may find an intelligence not that dissimilar from us in a star system away from our own. Whether the system that detects their radio transmissions is either a desktop PC, or a supercomputer, the result will be the same. If we do detect that signal, everything about us; our culture; our reality; our seclusion will all change. The probability is that if we do detect that signal, it will probably be so far away that we won't be able to contact them back before our technological adolescence leads us to our demise. However, it does not remove the means from the end. If we find that signal, and can verify that it is a genuine sign of extra terrestrial life other than ourselves, we will finally have the answer to the question we have been asking ourselves for as long as we have been sentient beings gazing into the night skies. Whether you are the person that finds the signal, or the last person to know that it has been found, it will not lose its significance in the slightest. Don't be phased by complicated software, because if you are still reading this post, then that means you really want it, no more or less than the founders of the SETI. If you want it bad enough, put in your contribution, show your commitment and support, and maybe one day that narrow band, ET signal may come through. When that time comes, you will know that all the struggle was worth it. If you thought any different, you wouldn't still be reading this post!!!
Now quit with the complaints, and show your patriotic side! We all want that signal to come through, so the more people that join in and help with the SETI, the higher the probability rises of us discovering it before our technological adolescence destroys us! Time is not on our side people! So what are we going to do? Will it come to the point where ET finds our broadcasts, come looking for us, and find a baron graveyard like Mars? Or will we find them in time to let them know that they are not alone too?
Fight the good fight people. We all know that nothing worth fighting for comes easy, whether it is running the BOINC system, or cleaning the optic fibre cables that connect the RT's to the computers. We know it is worth it in the end... That is how the SETI started!
CQ... This is the anomaly signing off... Now lets get stuck in, and give the SETI the strength it needs: NUMBERS!!!
Davide - 08 Aug 2008 23:57 GMT > http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > means we are 500 times more likely to find ET than with the original > SETI@home."" Personally i think that nasa, cause is nationally financed, has all the money it needs to get mainframes powerfull how much it wants, much more than all the power boinc can offers. I prefer to dedicate my little whit boinc to researches that the USA doesn't locate at the firsth locations and doesn't finance so much. So my boinc aims to genome comparisons, cancer aids and diabetes. I think it's better. I partecipate with world community grid and superlink@technion and my 40 watts pc is always awake for it.
|
|
|