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Space Forum / Astronomy / May 2005WHAT is the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE
I watched the last few minutes of a program on Science Channel about something called the "anthropic principle". What is this and does it have something to do with the evolution of life on the Earth? It seemed, based upon what I saw that life somehow happened because of this principle. What is it, and has it been discredited? > I watched the last few minutes of a program on Science > Channel about something called the "anthropic principle". > What is this and does it have something to do with the > evolution of life on the Earth? It seemed, based upon > what I saw that life somehow happened because of this > principle. What is it, and has it been discredited? The anthropic principle can apply to many things. Maybe the easiest way to explain it would be an example: Imagine a hypothetical universe where just _one_ of every million planets is suitable for life. Let say for simplicity that on each of those "one-in-a-million" planets arises intelligent life, and there is no life whatsoever on any of the other uninhabitable planets. Now, the people from the lucky planets may start wondering: "How come we are on such a beautiful planet, where everything is _just_ _exactly_ right for life? This is one-in-a-million chance! Does this mean that someone created the planet just for us?!" The anthropic principle says "You are asking this question _exactly_ because you are on a rare planet suitable for life; if your planet was not suitable for life, you wouldn't be there to ask." That pretty much summarizes it. Of course, if you start thinking about it, there will be other interesting consequences. For example, in order for the anthropic principle to work, it almost requires that there is a large number of places with various conditions on them. If the anthropic principle is applied to the universe as a whole ("How come this universe appears so suited for life?!") and this may be used to philosophize that there are more than one universes, and we live in one that has just the right conditions for creating complexity, i.e. life. But this is not so much "hard" science as philosophy. Regards, - Alex >> I watched the last few minutes of a program on Science >> Channel about something called the "anthropic principle". [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > - Alex I liked Douglas Adams description of the Anthropic Principle as "of a puddle of water, fitting itself snugly into a depression in the ground, the depression uncannily being exactly the same shape as the puddle." >>> I watched the last few minutes of a program on Science >>> Channel about something called the "anthropic principle". [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > puddle of water, fitting itself snugly into a depression in the ground, > the depression uncannily being exactly the same shape as the puddle." I don't see this example as something to be explained; it's easily understandable. OTOH, if solid ice, frozen elsewhere, was placed in the depression and found the ice fitted the depression exactly, that would be something begging an answer. > [ ... ] > > I liked Douglas Adams description of the Anthropic Principle as "of a puddle > of water, fitting itself snugly into a depression in the ground, the > depression uncannily being exactly the same shape as the puddle." Good one, :-) - Alex >> [ ... ] >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Good one, :-) It's a piss poor analogy. We know exactly why water takes the exact shape of a depression, that's no mystery. But not the cosmological coincidences of the universe. Why they are, as they are is a mystery for which there seems to be no answer. > - Alex > [ ... ] > > It's a piss poor analogy. We know exactly why water takes the exact > shape of a depression, that's no mystery. But not the cosmological > coincidences of the universe. Why they are, as they are is a mystery > for which there seems to be no answer. Cosmological principle is no mystery at all. It's as simple as the puddle example. It is not saying anything about any mysteries, and it definitely does not pretend to be answer to the big question about the life, the universe, and everything, :-) I think when you described your plane crash experience you were thinking of the question "Why me?" - and the anthropic principle does not have anything to say on this one. If's a completely different thing. - A >> [ ... ] >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Cosmological principle is no mystery at all. I don't know yet, exactly what the Anthropic Principle is. I thought it was an attempt to explain some curious observations about coincidences, constants and interdependant cosmic forces that have been obvserved. It's as simple as the puddle example. I question this. Why do you think it is as simple as the puddle example? I'm suggesting you are wrong, I don't understand your reasoning. It is not saying anything about any mysteries, If not, why then was it advanced by Brandon Carter and others? and > it definitely does not pretend to be answer to the big question about > the life, the universe, and everything, :-) I don't believe I implied that it answered any big questions. All it does is acknowledge that these cosmological coincidences exist. > I think when you described your plane crash experience you were > thinking of the question "Why me?" You are right, I have often thought about this. - and the anthropic principle does > not have anything to say on this one. If's a completely different > thing. I only offered my experence because, I considered the questions raised as a reasonable analogue to the Weak Anthropic Principle: such as, how did I get from the crash site to the hospital? Who was the good samerian who carried me there, and where did he come from. I don't believe in angels, nor do I believe in miracles. > - A > >> [ ... ] > >> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > in miracles. > > - A They don't ever bother to consider why the hole might need water to puddle. isla...@earthlink.net wrote: > > >> [ ... ] > > >> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > They don't ever bother to consider why the hole might need water to > puddle. . If I were a puddle... 'Wow... I wouldn't be here if it weren't for that hole.' ... and then I might note that every action causes me to wear down the rough edges of the hole, and my liquid composition enhances this process, ESPECIALLY when I'm puddled up. ... so then I'd wonder if maybe that was my function in nature, since every action serves to increase the entropy of the universe, where increases in complexity and order simply represent compounded increases in the potential for disorder that manifest themselves into these emergent properties which enable me to be more efficient at enhancing the entropy of the universe. The point of the above is to show that a good honest scientist would ask similar questions about similar such asymmetries in the energy of the unvierse, but creationist's abuses of the anthropic principle have caused them to come up with lame analogies that appeal to chaos and don't even consider all of the relevant factors... instead. Don't forget that you, the puddle, the hole, and everything else in the universe carry the impetus of the Big Bang as your most predominant inherent tendency, which increases over time in an expanding universe that has an increasing negative pressure component. There be good reason >> I watched the last few minutes of a program on Science >> Channel about something called the "anthropic principle". [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > if your planet was not suitable for life, you wouldn't be > there to ask." This is not very satisfactory. It doesn't explain anything! It reminds me of an unanswered chapter in my life. I was in a private plane crash a few years ago. We, the pilot and I, were flying cross country when the engine suddenly flamed out and we crashed into a large frozen lake. I recall seeing the lake coming very fast up to us and knew there was no way to escape crashing into it. This was a wilderness area with nothing around for many miles. I saw no chance of surviving, This is about the last thing I remember, but I woke up the next day in a hospital bed with some rather serious injuries, but I lived. Now, had I not survived the crash, gotten prompt medical attention, I would not be here to ask any questions. But I don't find that very satisfactory, although I am happy to be alive, I'm not satisfied. Some questions beg an answer. Sadly, the pilot who was my best friend, didn't make it. > That pretty much summarizes it. Of course, if you start > thinking about it, there will be other interesting [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > right conditions for creating complexity, i.e. life. But > this is not so much "hard" science as philosophy. > Regards, > > - Alex > This is not very satisfactory. It doesn't explain anything! > It reminds me of an unanswered chapter in my life. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > beg an answer. Sadly, the pilot who was my best > friend, didn't make it. You were very lucky, you found a bug in the Big Simulation so instead to die you woke up the next day in the hospital. We call it also a "miracle". Hope the programmers don't repair all the bugs... or maybe they like miracles... For more details see http://www.simulation-argument.com/ Anyway, every time I hear of someone "Unbreakable" I think more seriously at the Big Simulation. Or someone has a better explanation? Luigi Caselli >> This is not very satisfactory. It doesn't explain anything! >> It reminds me of an unanswered chapter in my life. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > die > you woke up the next day in the hospital. This was a chapter in my life, it was no simulation. I lived it. And to me saying if we were not here we would't be asking questions. This is taking the easy way out. It's evading the hard questions. > We call it also a "miracle". Hope the programmers don't repair all the > bugs... or maybe they like miracles... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Luigi Caselli Hi Smyth Fast thought on this principle goes like this "We see the universe the way it is because if it were different,we would not be around to notice it." Hmmmm Smyth that is really not very scientific. The principle to me is based on philosophy. Kind of leads my thoughts to What is the purpose of the universe? How does humankind fit in with the vast magnificent cosmos? Can our brains and computers over time give us complete knowledge,or will we have to bring in some profound source of spirituality into the picture? Steven Weinberg(one of my ideals) shocked me when he said this. "The more the universe seems comprehensible,the more it also seems meaningless". In all my life I'm glad to say a thought like that never crossed my mind. Sagan on the other hand I think went a little far out he tied to much of his thinking of the universe as having "spiritual values" A thought just entered to find out what does spirit means hmmm Just found out it is Latin "To breathe" I don't see the implication??? Do you? Bert > Hi Smyth Fast thought on this principle goes like this "We see the > universe the way it is because if it were different,we would not be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > is Latin "To breathe" I don't see the implication??? Do you? > Bert Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Breath...soul...spirit, see the connection? Double-A Thanks Double-A Yes the breath of life fits well. Bert > Hi Smyth Fast thought on this principle goes like this "We see the > universe the way it is because if it were different,we would not be > around to notice it." I've done a little reading on the topic of the Anthropic Principle since I began posting to this NG. So, if a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I guess I'm becoming more dangerous all the time! Because this, for me, is a fascinating subject. I went to the local library and checked out a book entitled the Anthropic Cosmological Principle by Burrow & Tipper. I'm an electrical engineer, so I never thought of myself as particularly dumb, but damn, this book shakes my confidence! It's tough going. I believe you described what is called the weak anthropic principle (WAP), which I don't find very satisfying. As an analogy, I recalled on an earlier post, a private plane crash that I lived through. What transpired between the time of the crash and my awaking in a hospital bed...? Had I not survived, I would not be around to ask questions about the time interval between the crash and finding myself in the hospital. This, I believe, is analogical to the WAP? In my case, *wap* just would not be facing the hard questions. I owe my life... Hmmmm Smyth that is really not very scientific. > The principle to me is based on philosophy. You really think so? I tend to think more in terms of the A.P. as a hypothesis to explain certain observations ie the cosmoligical constants and the precise values, and the various relationships between different forces etc. The AP is the explanation these observations and measurements. Am I wrong? Kind of leads my thoughts to > What is the purpose of the universe? How does humankind fit in with the > vast magnificent cosmos? Can our brains and computers over time give us [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > is Latin "To breathe" I don't see the implication??? Do you? > Bert Too early, and I'm too bewildered to tell. <snip> > I believe you described what is called the weak > anthropic principle (WAP), which I don't find [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > case, *wap* just would not be facing the hard > questions. I owe my life... IMO the "strong" version doesn't do any better: it seems to amount to "Goddidit!" OTOH what I get from the "weak" version is that the "why are we here?" kind of question may not be answerable, at least not as usually framed.  SignatureOdysseus > > I believe you described what is called the weak >> anthropic principle (WAP), which I don't find [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > are we here?" kind of question may not be answerable, at least not as > usually framed. This is an interesting dichotomy. WAP and SAP are diameterally opposed. But the SAP at least is pregnant with potential explanation in the crash scenario that was posed. The WAP takes a powder. > WAP and SAP are diameterally > opposed. False >> WAP and SAP are diameterally >> opposed. > > False If you consider that SAP is pregnant with possibilities, and WAP is barren and sterile. What could be more opposed? > >> WAP and SAP are diameterally > >> opposed. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you consider that SAP is pregnant with possibilities, and > WAP is barren and sterile. What could be more opposed? That doesn't put them at odds, dude, but regardless, you're missing the point that one is the limitiing special case, whereas... the other is the general case. The rest are just bullshit. >> >> WAP and SAP are diameterally >> >> opposed. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > point that one is the limitiing special case, whereas... the other is > the general case. The WAP and the SAP are two things, both cannot be right at the same time. SAP implys some supernatural designer thus non-scientific but SAP ignores all implications. This is not science either. > The rest are just bullshit. > >> >> WAP and SAP are diameterally > >> >> opposed. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > same time. SAP implys some supernatural designer thus non-scientific > but SAP ignores all implications. This is not science either. . The weak anthropic principle says that the 'observed values of all physical and cosmological quantities are not equally probable, but they take on values restricted by the requirement that there exist sites where carbon-based life can evolve and by the requirements that the Universe be old enough for it to have already done so.' Strong Anthropic Principle says that 'the Universe must have those properties which allow life to develop within it at some stage in its history.' ... which most certainly can be at specific "sites" and "some stage in history" surely can be when the universe is "old enough". No contadiction... sorry. The SAP does not necessarily implicate a supernatual designer, so, you're wrong yet again... even though it's getting more obvious by the minute that constructive criticism isn't something that you are willing to recognize. Otherwise known as... "willful ignorance" >> >> WAP and SAP are diameterally >> >> opposed. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The rest are just bullshit. As someone wrote elsewhere, if you won the lottery, by inference there must be others who played the lottery and lost. Otherwise there could be no lottery and you could not have won. It's the same thing with the universe, it there were not other universes that lost there could be no universes and our universe could not have won the lottery > >> >> WAP and SAP are diameterally > >> >> opposed. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > there could be no universes and our universe could not have won > the lottery So... who said that there was a lottery? > <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > are we here?" kind of question may not be answerable, at least not as > usually framed. How would you frame the question? <snip> > > IMO the "strong" version doesn't do any better: it seems to amount to > > "Goddidit!" OTOH what I get from the "weak" version is that the "why > > are we here?" kind of question may not be answerable, at least not as > > usually framed. > > > How would you frame the question? "Father, what ails you?" ;) "As framed" wasn't well put; I suppose I meant that it should be asked of a philosopher, not a physical scientist. The means by which life adapts to the environment makes a legitimate subject for scientific inquiry, but it's my opinion that the scientific method can't address questions of purpose. SignatureOdysseus > <snip> > > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -- > Odysseus The anthropic principle says nothing about purpose... was discovered by physicists that used it to make accurate physics predictions... represents a cosmological principle that rivals the Copernican system... bla bla bla... a little education goes a long way... > > Hi Smyth Fast thought on this principle goes like this "We see the > > universe the way it is because if it were different,we would not be [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > ie the cosmoligical constants and the precise values, and > the various relationships between different forces etc. . > The AP is the explanation these observations and > measurements. Am I wrong? . No, you're not wrong, and you appear to be one of few that approach the subject without the preconceived prejudices that stereotypically come from abuses of the principle by creationist types, and then it also runs into trouble again when it's implications for "purpose", RATHER, "higher-function" in nature run contrary to chotic physics interpretaions and the purist relativist's ideology Because of abuses, the common reactionary tendency of people that are normally strictly on the side of science is to try to down-play its signifcance and "explain-away" the strangeness that would normally make sane people step-back and take pause, which is what Herb is doing, but the fact is that the anthropic principle is actually very strong and able to make predictions about life elsewhere in the universe, as well as predictions about origins and it's relationship to evolutionary theory. There is about a page full of information about exactly that, at this site... http://www.geocities.com/naturescience/EntropicAP.html The first part the page is what you're interested in, because it covers actual scientific strength of the existing how this mentality commonly carries to cause people to approach the anthropic principle in the wrong manner. You can also see how this problem manifests if you look up the anthropic principle on the wikipedia. The page has been moderated by honest scientists and it gives an accurate description (as it is currently understood), but if you flip to the discussion page, then you will see with exception to the first entry that the stereotypical arguments don't hold water, and the dissenters are left whining about how they can't see anything unusal at all about winning the lottery seven times in a row... etc... Most all of the hard "left" explain-it-away rationale is just as lame as the fundamentalist creationists arguments for intelligent design and whatnot, but you will find it everywhere that the anthropic priniciple is discussed. The anthropic principle is a hard data point that is only able to attain the level of a truism, or a tautology without the **complete** physics for it. The principle is necessarily as incomplete as Dirac's Large Numbers hypothesis was flawed, which is where Robert Dicke got his anthropic coincidence from, as it pertains to the evolution of the universe. . > Kind of leads my thoughts to > > What is the purpose of the universe? How does humankind fit in with the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > Too early, and I'm too bewildered to tell. > >> This is not very satisfactory. It doesn't explain anything! > >> It reminds me of an unanswered chapter in my life. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > to me saying if we were not here we would't be asking questions. > This is taking the easy way out. It's evading the hard questions. You're right, I'm taking the easy way because the other ones are too difficult. Like Bert I love Steven Weinberg's sentence: "The more the universe seems comprehensible,the more it also seems meaningless". So I like the Simulation hypothesis (I don't say I believe in it) because it explains everything in the simplest way... I know you can tell me: "And the Simulators universe? Who created it? Who are they? and so on" but like Sims in the popular game can't have answers about humans so humans can't have answers about Simulators... Luigi Caselli >So I like the Simulation hypothesis (I don't say I believe in it) because it >explains everything in the simplest way... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Luigi Caselli Maybe the "Simulation" is all a matter of BRANES :-) C. > >So I like the Simulation hypothesis (I don't say I believe in it) because it > >explains everything in the simplest way... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Maybe the "Simulation" is all a matter of BRANES :-) > C. Was this supposed to be funny, Chuckweasel? SignatureOfficial Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler <http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/alexa/socks.html> <http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/kazoo/kazoo.html> "Art Deco" <art_deco@127.0.0.1> what a pitiful Usenet scum wannabe. she trys & trys with her NOTHINGS! Silver Bullet > "Art Deco" <art_deco@127.0.0.1> > > what a pitiful Usenet scum wannabe. > she trys & trys with her NOTHINGS! > > Silver Bullet How many more times will you be posting this same droolage, pedo lamer? SignatureOfficial Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler <http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/alexa/socks.html> <http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/kazoo/kazoo.html> lisping "Art Deco" <art_deco@127.0.0.1> artsy fartsy Art Deco, the buffoon clown of Usenet, she farts & farts & farts, but she just continues to make a fool of herself. Silver Bullet >lisping "Art Deco" <art_deco@127.0.0.1> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Silver Bullet Maybe papa Osterwald did not spend much time on "her" education :-) C. > >lisping "Art Deco" <art_deco@127.0.0.1> > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Maybe papa Osterwald Still suffering from attribution problems, Chuckweasel? > did not spend much time on > "her" education :-) > C. Slurping a pedo moron now; par for the course, Chuckweasel. SignatureOfficial Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler <http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/alexa/socks.html> <http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/kazoo/kazoo.html> > > >lisping "Art Deco" <art_deco@127.0.0.1> > > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Slurping a pedo moron now; par for the course, Chuckweasel. Hey, maybe Chuck likes his sheep REALLY YOUNG? -- V.G. "i would blame them it they went on a holy jhiad and killed off all the infidels, would you?" - AssLexa's "200+" alien-implanted IQ jumps the rails and crashes into a grade school, killing all inside. Change pobox dot alaska to gci. Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield. Monkey Boy <vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> wrote: > > > >lisping "Art Deco" <art_deco@127.0.0.1> > > > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Hey, maybe Chuck likes his sheep REALLY YOUNG? Nothing about Chuckweasel surprises me any more. SignatureOfficial Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler <http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/alexa/socks.html> <http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/kazoo/kazoo.html> >>lisping "Art Deco" <art_deco@127.0.0.1> >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "her" education :-) > C. How funny to see you using the word education when it's obvious you have none. Signaturemhm 27x12 smeeter #28 Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21 Bartlo's hate lits #1: <40376AD8.C83FBF5A@enter.net> CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc. The Way of the Kook: http://www.insurgent.org/~jhd/kookway.htm in Message-ID: lhic01pc5svudk22n6rpcvovskdmpi3ir8@4ax.com Alexa Cameron explains world religions: "The jews roots are islamic." in Message-ID: <ftbc4152vcsun85v7tmsb64qvvoc25l2qe@4ax.com> Charles D. Bohne shows his fear for his posts being archived: "P.S.: Could you do me a favor? .. Not to quote the whole Art Deco when he makes a full quote of my texts, which as you know, I do not want to be archived?" > > "Art Deco" <art_deco@127.0.0.1> > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > <http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/alexa/socks.html> > <http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/kazoo/kazoo.html> Art Deco Apr 26, 9:35 pm show options --- Coward of the Month writes unsubstantiated and erroneous conclusion On your part. Whose? Irrelevant. Non sequitur. Classic lack of specificity. Classic inconsistency. Unsubstantiated and erroneous conclusion as I just Classic inconsistency. Non sequitur. Note: no Response. No surprise there, really How ironic, coming from the person who failed to answer the question. Classic evasion of the point. The proof is there. How ironic. Classic unsubstantiation. Non sequitur. You're erroneously presupposing that you are correct. Classic poppycock. How ironic. Classic evasion. Classic inconsistency. Am sequituresten. Non sequitur. Classic failure to point. Noted not. No, by all means. Just noted. [ . . / Non sequitur. How ironic. Note: no Response. Classic erroneous presupposition. I've been there. How ironic. Isn't it? Non sequitur. Classic erroneous presupposition. You're erroneously presupposing that you could recognize the truth if it bit you in the arse Wonder how it feels ..... Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, and rather ironic, coming from someone who has yet to recognize the truth. Classic failure to comprehend the point. Classic erroneous presupposition. Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, laced with invective, as expected from someone who lacks a logical argument. Non sequitur. Classic invective, as expected from someone who lacks a logical argument. And <yawn> Non sequitur. Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim. Classic lying On your part, Illogical. You still fail to note any alleged statement Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim. Classic pontification. Non sequitur. Erroneous Non sequitur. You're erroneous. Classic evasion You're erroneously presupposing that it's a fact. Classic lack of specificity. Non sequitur. Illogical. Classic inconsistency. Non sequitur. #2 >Art Deco Apr 26, 9:35 pm show options >--- [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] >Classic inconsistency. >Non sequitur. I am overwhelmed, what a variety :-9 C. >>Art Deco Apr 26, 9:35 pm show options >>--- [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > I am overwhelmed, what a variety :-9 > C. Well said .. L Bee > >>Art Deco Apr 26, 9:35 pm show options > >>--- [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > >>Classic inconsistency. > >>Non sequitur. This lits is defective, more than half of these are not mine. > > I am overwhelmed, what a variety :-9 > > C. > > Well said .. Pink the Slurper left off a few entries: Tholenator(tm) Chuckweasel BlueBoi Alexa saucerhead delusional Continue kookdancing. SignatureOfficial Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler <http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/alexa/socks.html> <http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/kazoo/kazoo.html> >> >>Art Deco Apr 26, 9:35 pm show options >> >>--- [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > Continue kookdancing. Maybe??! Maybe not ??!! :-D L Bee-Ji-Botting -out >> Pink the Slurper left off a few entries: "Pale.Pink." <Pale.Pink.Meta.Gases@hush.ai> won't like to hear that kind of unfriendly attribution. C. > >> Pink the Slurper left off a few entries: Ed. note: Here Chuckweasel pretends to ignore the "kookers" by replying through one of his slurp partners, and deleted the attribution that indicates this line is my writing. Also note that Chuckweasel slurp partner "Pale.Pink." snecked alt.fucknozzles earlier in this thread. > "Pale.Pink." <Pale.Pink.Meta.Gases@hush.ai> > won't like to hear that kind of unfriendly attribution. > C. Poor baby, perhaps he/she/it shouldn't be posting to usenet if he/she/it can't take the heat. For his blatant cowardice of not replying directly, but replying nonetheless while maintaining a transparent veneer of pretending to ignore those that point out his kookery, I nominate Chuckweasel Bohnehead for Coward of the Month, May 2005. Any seconds? SignatureOfficial Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler <http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/alexa/socks.html> <http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/kazoo/kazoo.html> [...] > For his blatant cowardice of not replying directly, but replying > nonetheless while maintaining a transparent veneer of pretending to > ignore those that point out his kookery, I nominate Chuckweasel > Bohnehead for Coward of the Month, May 2005. > > Any seconds? /Me seconds possibly the first nomination of May. Chuckweasel has the humourous habit of picking the battles he thinks he can win -- yet losing even those. R. SignatureGo not to Usenet for counsel, for they will say both yes and no. >[...] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >R. The proper medical diagnosis is: Kenny Kakes Syndrome SignatureDoes the name Pavlov ring a bell? > >[...] > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > >/Me seconds possibly the first nomination of May. I believe it is the second nom for May; I nominated Alexa for the Drama Queen award yesterday following her failure to extort cash from QE2, and her subsequent failure to relocate to Russia on April 30. > >Chuckweasel has the humourous habit of picking the battles he thinks he can > >win -- yet losing even those. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The proper medical diagnosis is: > Kenny Kakes Syndrome Would driving full throttle into a brick wall be a symptom of this affliction? Open alt.astronomy and check out the mindless, incoherent drivel he participates with the saucerhead hordes that infest this froup. SignatureOfficial Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler <http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/alexa/socks.html> <http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/kazoo/kazoo.html> >> >[...] >> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Would driving full throttle into a brick wall be a symptom of this > affliction? I would like think that this is the therapy R. SignatureGo not to Usenet for counsel, for they will say both yes and no. Ross <Ross@SingingFrog.com> wrote in news:Xns964A8DE7FE722Ross@ 216.196.97.142: >>> >[...] >>> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I would like think that this is the therapy Hit the Wayback Machine and check out kook-watch.net for more on Chuckwheat. He's not as good as Twacky but the little freak has some prime moments. SignatureCujo - The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in dfw.*, alt.paranormal, alt.astrology and alt.astrology.metapsych. Winner of the 8/2000 & 2/2003 HL&S award. Hail Petitmorte! Colonel of the Fanatic Legion. FL# 555-PLNTY Motto: ABUNDANCE!. Charter Member - Digital Brownshirts and Library Gestapo. "Interesting how you abusers try to make things a "chuckle", but you obsess over the chuckle for 7 years." - Ed the numerically-challenged. Notorious net kook, psycho, transvestite, saucerhead, cuphead, platehead, transvestite, Jap traitor, coward, ignoramus, transvestite, commie pinko, nigger lovin', manhating dyke, faggot, transvestite, asexual anarchist and all around strikingly handsome lunatic Robert "mop jockey" Wolfe, while > Ross <Ross@SingingFrog.com> wrote in news:Xns964A8DE7FE722Ross@ > 216.196.97.142: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Hit the Wayback Machine and check out kook-watch.net Did that site get shut down or something? BWAAAAHAHAHAHA! > for more on > Chuckwheat. He's not as good as Twacky but the little freak has some [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "Interesting how you abusers try to make things a "chuckle", but you > obsess over the chuckle for 7 years." - Ed the numerically-challenged. Signature"Some people think cross-posting is "bad". In and of itself, it's good behaviour - it allows you to reach more groups with less impact on the net." - Spam Thresholds FAQ "Don't.... Don't-Don't-Don't Believe the Hype! MUAHAHAHAHA!" - Public Enemy No. 1 Evil "Roberta" Wolfe Official Grand Wizard of alt.f.ck alt.military.collecting.medals and THIS FROUP! (coming soon) INSTRUCTIONS: Only replies x-posted to alt.f.ck will be responded to. (...not.) I would like to dedicate this sig to the little people: "I've had multiple Usenet accounts for years, kook." - Mike Davis "Wow, getting multiple accounts just so you can try to troll Usenet with your lame sock puppet act is really kooky" - Mike Davis "You have multiple accounts? Most kooks do so that they have at least one place to whine from when their access is nuked." - Cujo DeCrotchPuppet "I am sending a copy of your post to the abuse department of your ISP with CCs to the FTC and the FBI." - Mike Davis Fukking Loses it Completely, Wayne Manzo Style. This sig has recieved raving reviews (from raving lunatics): "Thanks for keeping me in your .sig for months and years." - Lunch Lady J*** torlled again. "Thanks for continuing to admit who owns you in your .sig." - Lunch lady J*** "ignoring" me. "Kept us in his .sig for quite a while now, I see." - Lunch Lady J*** "Tell me is Roberta still wandering usenet displying the names of his owners proudly in his .sig?" - Lunch Lady J*** wondering aloud about all of that stuff she claims to "ignore". "What's w/ the sig?" - HVAC "You must really be hard up for sig material, mop jockey. Well, looking at your recent sigs, I can see why." - Michael Davis "I see you added more proof of my ownership of your gender-confused carcass to your sig, you morphing freak." - Cujo DeSuckpuppet "Forgot about your sig, didn't you. DOOP!" - Michael Davis is Obese "Wax in your inner ear, doodoo in your outer ear Two cows, a zebra will jump through your atmosphere" - Dr. Octagon PHd. "Your sig is too long and boring (hell I made it down to line 16)." - Some Toothless Brit (who admittedly can't read more than 16 lines of text) > Ross <Ross@SingingFrog.com> wrote in news:Xns964A8DE7FE722Ross@ > 216.196.97.142: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Chuckwheat. He's not as good as Twacky but the little freak has some > prime moments. Thanks, that's a good Chuckweasel reference. This one I found entertaining: "P.S.: Americans are cowards, they love to beat those who can not retail. You will not see them in the streets of Baghdad ... they will just drop a big bomb ... killing hundred thousands of civilians, women and babies alike. And the shock of this massacre will trigger WW III. For US it's history ... not much fun to watch." SignatureOfficial Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler <http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/alexa/socks.html> <http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/kazoo/kazoo.html> >check out the mindless, incoherent drivel Your excuse is? >>check out the mindless, incoherent drivel > >Your excuse is? Check out the .sig for mindless drivel. SignatureAlexa Cameron Posting as: From: "hi ho, hi ho" <hi@ho.wego> In the following Message: Message-ID: <l81d71h8atqhs1fg78apk8ck4pdin1ggp1@4ax.com> Demonstrated her psychic powers: "It's not required to read a usenet post in order to respond to it." >>>check out the mindless, incoherent drivel >> >>Your excuse is? > >Check out the .sig for mindless drivel. You are a mindless drivel. Thanks for proving the point. >>>>check out the mindless, incoherent drivel >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >You are a mindless drivel. Thanks for proving the point. So how did the whole move to Russia and extort $50,000,000 from QEII and Carlyle work out for you? 'Ratz SignatureAlexa Cameron Posting as: From: "hi ho, hi ho" <hi@ho.wego> In the following Message: Message-ID: <l81d71h8atqhs1fg78apk8ck4pdin1ggp1@4ax.com> Demonstrated her psychic powers: "It's not required to read a usenet post in order to respond to it." >>>>>check out the mindless, incoherent drivel >>>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >So how did the whole move to Russia and extort $50,000,000 from QEII >and Carlyle work out for you? Two speckled trout and a very short jerk line helps immensely. >>>>>>check out the mindless, incoherent drivel >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Two speckled trout and a very short jerk line helps immensely. Hi, Alexa! Decided not to scrub Russian floors, then? ESL! -- Bookman >>>>>>>check out the mindless, incoherent drivel >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Hi, Alexa! Hi Alexa! > Decided not to scrub Russian floors, then? You're doing a fine job of that, don't let anyone stop you. Think grey. >ESL! "You're doing a fine job of that, Don't let anyone stop you. Think grey." ~ Hi ho, hi ho, Faith "Grey parrot, Tres kewl foul ~ ! But they have no down to loft for comfortor ..." ~ Folly >"You're doing a fine job of that, >Don't let anyone stop you. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >But they have no down to loft for comfortor ..." >~ Folly The Universe is a very efficient recycler. :-) "Classic Poppycock ~ Grey parrot, Tres kewl foul ~ ! But they have no down to loft for comforter ..." ~ Folly "... and every bed's That warm an snugly needs a lofty comforter ~ !" ~ Twittering "O, yes, Amsterdam nights, cold and drafty ~ But O, How's about a nice chilled Micro ~ Draft ~ ? A nice pilsner will do For me." ~ Twittering >"Classic Poppycock ~ The Universe is best viewed through rose-colored glasses. ;-) >>>>>>>>check out the mindless, incoherent drivel >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>Hi, Alexa! >Hi Alexa! Still pretending that you are not Alexa, Alexa? I noticed that nothing particularly noteworthy happened on 30 Apr, looks like you blew another "prediction". >> Decided not to scrub Russian floors, then? > >You're doing a fine job of that, don't let anyone stop you. What makes you believe that I scrub floors in Russia, when I am not in Russia, Alexa? >Think grey. No, thanks. I prefer to think pink. >>ESL! -- Bookman > I prefer to think pink. You do that. There is always a future in the Universe somewhere. "You're doing a fine job of that, Don't let anyone stop you. Think grey." ~ Hi ho, hi ho, Faith "Classic Poppycock ~ Dove grey." ~ Twittering "I prefer to think Pink." ~ Bookman "You do that. There is always a future In the Universe somewhere ..." ~ Faith "... and on a clear Day ~ You can see forever ..." ~ Ms. Streisand "Or, just Tip ~ Toe Like a Panther ..." ~ Folly "... or fly with us, Me and my Folly, my very silly goose ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ! * ! * ! * !" ~ Twittering > ~ Hi ho, hi ho, Faith > ~ Twittering [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ~ Folly > ~ Twittering Pleace to be addign mee to yuor lits!!! PJR :-) Signaturealt.usenet.kooks award-winners and FAQ: http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/ [To reply by email, remove "NOSPAM".] >> I prefer to think pink. > > You do that. There is always a future in the Universe somewhere. Hi, Alexa! >>> I prefer to think pink. >> >> You do that. There is always a future in the Universe somewhere. > > Hi, Alexa! Why are you addressing my post as 'hi alexa'? >>>> I prefer to think pink. >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >Why are you addressing my post as 'hi alexa'? Hi, Ho!!! Kali Signature"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat, "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." -Lewis Carroll > >>>>>>check out the mindless, incoherent drivel > >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > ESL! She found out they don't have any TEQUILA. -- V.G. "i would blame them it they went on a holy jhiad and killed off all the infidels, would you?" - AssLexa's "200+" alien-implanted IQ jumps the rails and crashes into a grade school, killing all inside. Change pobox dot alaska to gci. Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield. > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > R. LOL! Signaturemhm 27x12 smeeter #28 Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21 Bartlo's hate lits #1: <40376AD8.C83FBF5A@enter.net> CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc. The Way of the Kook: http://www.insurgent.org/~jhd/kookway.htm in Message-ID: lhic01pc5svudk22n6rpcvovskdmpi3ir8@4ax.com Alexa Cameron explains world religions: "The jews roots are islamic." in Message-ID: <ftbc4152vcsun85v7tmsb64qvvoc25l2qe@4ax.com> Charles D. Bohne shows his fear for his posts being archived: "P.S.: Could you do me a favor? .. Not to quote the whole Art Deco when he makes a full quote of my texts, which as you know, I do not want to be archived?" >> For his blatant cowardice of not replying directly, but replying >> nonetheless while maintaining a transparent veneer of pretending [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > /Me seconds possibly the first nomination of May. Nomination APPROVED. Colonel Graff (Ret.) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler >>> For his blatant cowardice of not replying directly, but replying >>> nonetheless while maintaining a transparent veneer of pretending [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Nomination APPROVED. Oh, my, an insurrection. Colonel, why don't you just email PJR and beg for your tin-foil sombrero? >Colonel Graff (Ret.) >Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler SignatureYou just don't get it, do you Fred? Into the f.cking killfile you go, you stupid piece of sh.t. -- Chuck lies again You're a piece of sh.t liar and a coward, hiding behind an anonymous e-mail address. That's all you are, you sorry excuse for a human being.---Chuckhole feeling impotent again Ya know something? I should wait six days to respond to your inane comments. That way, they'll be removed and there won't be anything to respond to. Chuck demonstrates his Usenet knowledge in Message-ID: <1108422620.509205.87110@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> > Oh, my, an insurrection. Colonel, why don't you just email PJR > and beg for your tin-foil sombrero? Peter is no longer in power. If he tries to f.ck with me then I will award him with one. Colonel Graff (Ret.) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler >> Oh, my, an insurrection. Colonel, why don't you just email PJR >> and beg for your tin-foil sombrero? > >Peter is no longer in power. If he tries to f.ck with me then I will >award him with one. Really? I haven't seen much support for your coup d'etat here in auk. Kinda kooky on your part, don't you think? >Colonel Graff (Ret.) >Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler SignatureYou just don't get it, do you Fred? Into the f.cking killfile you go, you stupid piece of sh.t. -- Chuck lies again You're a piece of sh.t liar and a coward, hiding behind an anonymous e-mail address. That's all you are, you sorry excuse for a human being.---Chuckhole feeling impotent again Ya know something? I should wait six days to respond to your inane comments. That way, they'll be removed and there won't be anything to respond to. Chuck demonstrates his Usenet knowledge in Message-ID: <1108422620.509205.87110@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> > Really? I haven't seen much support for your coup d'etat here in > auk. Kinda kooky on your part, don't you think? Answer this objectively, please. Do you think it is the job of the vote wrangler to decide if a nominee is kook or not before the monthly poll is conducted? Isn't that what the poll is for? Wouldn't you rather have someone who doesn't disenfranchise your vote? Colonel Graff (Ret.) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler >> Really? I haven't seen much support for your coup d'etat here in >> auk. Kinda kooky on your part, don't you think? > >Answer this [SLAP] yer a k00k. Signaturegburnore@databasix dot com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- How you look depends on where you go. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ DataBasix | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ | ÝÛ³ 3 4 1 4 2 ݳ޳ 6 9 0 6 9 ÝÛ³ Black Helicopter Repair Svcs Division | Official Proof of Purchase =========================================================================== Want one? GET one! http://signup.databasix.com =========================================================================== Gary L. Burnore <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in news:d56kp5$qob$1 @m3t00.databasix.com: >>> Really? I haven't seen much support for your coup d'etat here in >>> auk. Kinda kooky on your part, don't you think? >> >>Answer this [SLAP] > > yer a k00k. yer a toothless old fart Imbu >> Really? I haven't seen much support for your coup d'etat here in >> auk. Kinda kooky on your part, don't you think? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Colonel Graff (Ret.) > Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Absolutely correct, sir. It has been far too long that the lunatics have been running the asylum and it is about thime someone came in and showed these lusers just what proper management looks like. I for one will support your efforts in removing the toothless old lions and replacing them with a more active and dynamic leader. Imbu > Absolutely correct, sir. It has been far too long that the > lunatics have been running the asylum and it is about thime > someone came in and showed these lusers just what proper > management looks like. I for one will support your efforts in > removing the toothless old lions and replacing them with a more > active and dynamic leader. Thanks for your support. I will do my best to serve the office with dignity and honor. Colonel Graff (Ret.) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler >> Absolutely correct, sir. It has been far too long that the >> lunatics have been running the asylum and it is about thime [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Colonel Graff (Ret.) > Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler A pleasure sir. Will there be refreshments served at the investment? > Will there be refreshments served at the investment? Lots. Colonel Graff (Ret.) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler "Colonel Graff (Ret.)" <graff@colmin.gov> wrote in news:d56m8c$j5n$2 @domitilla.aioe.org: >> Will there be refreshments served at the investment? > > Lots. > > Colonel Graff (Ret.) > Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Beer? These kooks are suckers for beer. Imbu >> Absolutely correct, sir. It has been far too long that the >> lunatics have been running the asylum and it is about thime [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Colonel Graff (Ret.) > Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler f.ck, it's having conversations with itself. PJR :-) Signaturealt.usenet.kooks award-winners and FAQ: http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/ [To reply by email, remove "NOSPAM".] >>> Absolutely correct, sir. It has been far too long that the >>> lunatics have been running the asylum and it is about thime [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > PJR :-) What do you know? The level of paranoia you people live with is scary. Maybe you need to get out more, see the real world once in a while. Imbu >>>> Absolutely correct, sir. It has been far too long that the >>>> lunatics have been running the asylum and it is about thime [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >What do you know? The level of paranoia you people live with is scary. >Maybe you need to get out more, see the real world once in a while. It's apparent that you've lost all contact with the real world. >Imbu SignatureYou just don't get it, do you Fred? Into the f.cking killfile you go, you stupid piece of sh.t. -- Chuck lies again You're a piece of sh.t liar and a coward, hiding behind an anonymous e-mail address. That's all you are, you sorry excuse for a human being.---Chuckhole feeling impotent again Ya know something? I should wait six days to respond to your inane comments. That way, they'll be removed and there won't be anything to respond to. Chuck demonstrates his Usenet knowledge in Message-ID: <1108422620.509205.87110@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> Fred Hall <fkhall@databasix.com> wrote in news:d56mt4$lir$7 @mews.databasix.com: >>>>> Absolutely correct, sir. It has been far too long that the >>>>> lunatics have been running the asylum and it is about thime [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >>Imbu Nice peewee Auktard. Imbu >Fred Hall <fkhall@databasix.com> wrote in news:d56mt4$lir$7 >@mews.databasix.com: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Nice peewee Auktard. What's next, wannabe snu*tard, *nutsacks*? >Imbu Fred Hall <fkhall@databasix.com> wrote in news:d56o9p$lir$15@badtz- maru.databasix.com: >>Fred Hall <fkhall@databasix.com> wrote in news:d56mt4$lir$7 >>@mews.databasix.com: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >>Imbu Does your paranoia have any limits? Imbu >> Really? I haven't seen much support for your coup d'etat here in >> auk. Kinda kooky on your part, don't you think? > >Answer this objectively, please. Do you think it is the job of the >vote wrangler to decide if a nominee is kook or not before the >monthly poll is conducted? I do when the nominator appears to be a sock. And quite frankly, I agree with the FNVW assessment of christinA. The rmgroup thing has been a running joke for years. > Isn't that what the poll is for? No. > Wouldn't >you rather have someone who doesn't disenfranchise your vote? I've never been disenfranchised, so I don't know. I've had the FNVW disallow one of my nominations, but I certainly didn't whine about it. Your obsession with christinA borders on kookiness. >Colonel Graff (Ret.) >Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler >> Really? I haven't seen much support for your coup d'etat here in >> auk. Kinda kooky on your part, don't you think? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > monthly poll is conducted? Isn't that what the poll is for? Wouldn't > you rather have someone who doesn't disenfranchise your vote? I notice that Colonel Graff (Ret.) has been nominated and seconded for the office of Darth Bawl. Will you be accepting the nomination? After all, it's not your job to decide whether the nominee is a kook or not. > Colonel Graff (Ret.) > Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler PJR :-) Signaturealt.usenet.kooks award-winners and FAQ: http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/ [To reply by email, remove "NOSPAM".] > I notice that Colonel Graff (Ret.) has been nominated and seconded > for the office of Darth Bawl. > > Will you be accepting the nomination? After all, it's not your job > to decide whether the nominee is a kook or not. The nomination was REFUSED. Under my rule, no nominations of the vote wrangler will be accepted. Colonel Graff (Ret.) Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler >> I notice that Colonel Graff (Ret.) has been nominated and seconded >> for the office of Darth Bawl. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >The nomination was REFUSED. Under my rule Poor little pissant, haven't you heard? Colonel's don't rule. They make chicken. Signaturegburnore@databasix dot com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- How you look depends on where you go. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ DataBasix | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³ | ÝÛ³ 3 4 1 4 2 ݳ޳ 6 9 0 6 9 ÝÛ³ Black Helicopter Repair Svcs Division | Official Proof of Purchase =========================================================================== Want one? GET one! http://signup.databasix.com =========================================================================== Gary L. Burnore <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote in news:d56m19$qob$13 @pookiehead.databasix.com: >>> I notice that Colonel Graff (Ret.) has been nominated and seconded >>> for the office of Darth Bawl. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Poor little pissant, haven't you heard? Colonel's don't rule. They > make chicken. What would you know of military matters? Probably never servered did you, kook? Imbu |
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