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Space Forum / Astronomy / November 2004Chicken or the Egg?
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0411/14galaxyform/ What comes first the black hole or the bulge in the center of a galaxy? nightbat wrote > http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0411/14galaxyform/ > > What comes first the black hole or the bulge in the center of a galaxy? nightbat Thanks SH for that link and it only points out via one example they still are not sure what comes first. For there are no classical mathematical no outlet black holes only nightbat theoretical predicted " Black Comet " galaxy dispersing ones. For remember, even if the first " Black Comet " can be ascertained it would still be an internal forming galaxy by its own right. So technically you would be back to where you started. Can there ever be an original point beginning for an energy based Universe, no, because energy by its very nature is infinite and any system dependent on it follows. the nightbat > nightbat wrote > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > based Universe, no, because energy by its very nature is infinite and > any system dependent on it follows. What is the "Black Comet"? Luigi Caselli nightbat wrote > > nightbat wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Luigi Caselli nightbat The " Black Comet " theory is nightbat's original resolution to the black hole classical no outlet premise. The enigmatic black hole mathematical curiosity first presented by Dr. Einstein pointed to an singularity of infinite energy and mass potential to zero no outlet point volume, a non real world possibility. It has been a paradox which has plagued physicist's and mathematicians including theorist's seeking resolution and subsequently after Dr. Einstein's death proposing the term black hole. Where when any gravitationally pulled energy and mass, which once crosses the static or rotating singularity's event horizon, falls into the formed cone and resultantly imagined therefore out of the Universe. Only until recently has the Hawking's British physics group accepted the possibility of the theoretical slow dispersing internal not simply Hawking's horizon radiation possibility of a still called black hole to communicative or rejoin the Universe due to final applied understanding of energy's indestructibility and naked singularity understanding. Luigi, I had long ago predicted using my theory of fermion to boson condensed new state matter the possibility of profound galaxy forming dynamics and always in same one Universe communication of a singularity of immense density beyond Chandra normal gravity upper mass neutron class stellar upper limits, including non violation of Pauli state principle, in which I called, deduced, explained, and posted, over net science newsgroups as a nightbat " Black Comet ". The literary term proof is that their still applied use of the non real world premise classical understanding and term no outlet black hole negates their collective new found understanding of communicative and final internal dispersing 1st presented nightbat one. ponder on, the nightbat Hi luigi Have a question for you,and your name indicates to me you are big on spaghetti. Why when you bend spaghetti till it breaks it breaks in three pieces. bert << Hi luigi Have a question for you,and your name indicates to me you are big on spaghetti. Why when you bend spaghetti till it breaks it breaks in three pieces. bert >> Parmesan cheese. _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A> > Hi luigi Have a question for you,and your name indicates to me you are > big on spaghetti. Why when you bend spaghetti till it > breaks it breaks in three pieces. bert It's easier to unify GR an QM than answer this question... You can solve it eating maccaroni... Luigi Caselli Hi Luigi I'm asking this question before the pasta is cooked.thist has nothing to do with any other pasta.Please stay with the question Bert > Hi Luigi I'm asking this question before the pasta is cooked.thist has > nothing to do with any other pasta.Please stay with the question Bert Bert, next time I buy some spaghetti I'll conduct a controlled experiment and get back to you. You're making me hungry! Double-A Hi SH There is no question in my mind that black holes came first. They were created by the big bang(same spacetime),and stars billions of years later. This is a very well accepted theory. Never liked that saying "What came first the chicken or the egg?." The answer to that is neither. A quantum fluctuations,and space fabric created the big bang. For many moons I have used the force of gravity(now they use quantum fluctuation) Go figure Bert << Never liked that saying "What came first the chicken or the egg?." The answer to that is neither. A quantum fluctuations,and space fabric created the big bang. >> Hey gang ~ Toss me my La Crosse mitt! The Big Game's coming up. La Crosse Played on the grassy field, No, certainly not my best game. But alas, Hell,yes! I'll learn the rules. But this, no, not taught in Gold Fish School. O way ~ Mum's now on the phone! Um hm. Yes m'am. You got it, sure, ok! Anything for you. Anyway, As I was saying: Me, yes, I've a bone To quarrel: I prefer another Game, just the same But better. A Tartan plaid, our family Argyle. Distill: one matter Makes better the two. Enfold light with shadow ~ Hold me, please, Mother. Allow Chiraoscurro, a model bathing light With form. So form me: A shadow modeled Lighter with your form's only real pleasure: Mine. Mind + matter makes better My letter's, too. So snow. So know! Now, avouer! Where's Leonardo? Let's get to the show ~ My arm, yours. Indeed, you, My amature ~ Divine form upon Which I hang my light. Or otherwise, me, just a Twittering Flight Around Idleness... Nice? _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A> Twitter Nor chicken or its egg came first. Chicken fat came first Bert << Twitter Nor chicken or its egg came first. Chicken fat came first Bert >> O dunno Berty. Perhaps the amoeba? No chick or egg for a while? They were one, Got parted, And it took a long time For them to find One another again... Not until they were Fishies... And then, well, the egg Certainly came before\The chicken. _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A> SH Gravity always comes first.The BH made the bulge,and with the bulging we are able to deduce the rest. Bert > SH Gravity always comes first.The BH made the bulge,and with the > bulging we are able to deduce the rest. Bert Ahh but Bert if gravity is a function of mass how did gravity come before mass? BV. BV You claim gravity is a function of mass,and I could say say mass is a function of gravity. Nothing in the universe is free from the attraction of gravity.Not EM energy,and gravitons attract gravitons(Wheeler) BV the job given to the Higgs field(or particle) is to give mass to elementary particles. My thoughts are getting mass means they get inertia,and inertia and gravity are the same thing. Again it is the dog catching its own tail(or trying to) My "Spin is in theory" can show how nature uses the Higgs field. Bert PS An accelerator the size of our galaxy would be needed to reveal the Higgs paricle. > BV You claim gravity is a function of mass,and I could say say mass is > a function of gravity. Nothing in the universe is free from the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > show how nature uses the Higgs field. Bert PS An accelerator the size > of our galaxy would be needed to reveal the Higgs paricle. So do you theorize that there was gravity in the early universe? Let's say the first few minutes? BV. BV The spacetime before the BB was gravity. It was gravity+ space energy that created the first BB. Gravity is the force of nature. It created the other 3 forces(faces of gravity) and evolved matter particles out of energy. Now let me say this to you BV I'm being nice to you because I know you like science,and you often come in after my posts.Let me make myself perfectly clear I don't have to answer for CNN news when they announce NASA has 2 billion missing from its books. Reality is CNN news had great guts to bring this point up. NASA has a great intimidation force. Some people will kill for far less than 2 billion. With the high influential crooks that head NASA 2 billion is a nice easy figure to get away with. With no more shuttles to get money from 2 billion is a cheap way to get rid of the garbage(todays NASA) It would have been nice if we got rid of these low chicken brain Rube Goldberg engineering money grabbing,and astronaut killing political and corporate vile low life people 40 years ago. What I have preached for 40 years has come to pass. I wish I was wrong. To get egg off their face NASA did go through Texas picking up body parts. I wonder what the families are suing NASA for?. The families of the Challenger crew sued,but who can find out what NASA paid them? NASA like all political identities has nothing to worry about. Money and political power sees to it that the top guns will build 25 million dollar homes in Boca Grande. That to them is not a lot of money(out of 2 billion) and best for us not to forget their house we tax payers are buying for them is the same price we paid for shuttle toilets 35 years ago (its a bargain) Bert > BV The spacetime before the BB was gravity. It was gravity+ space energy > that created the first BB. Gravity is the force of nature. It created > the other 3 forces(faces of gravity) and evolved matter particles out of > energy. <off topic snippage> How do you see gravity relating to mass? Is there a connection? Does mass evoke gravity? BV. > > BV The spacetime before the BB was gravity. It was gravity+ space energy > > that created the first BB. Gravity is the force of nature. It created [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > BV. Mass is not necessary for gravity. Energy has gravity associated with it too. Double-A > > > BV The spacetime before the BB was gravity. It was gravity+ space energy > > > that created the first BB. Gravity is the force of nature. It created [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Mass is not necessary for gravity. Energy has gravity associated with it too. More, please...What do you mean? I have never heard this before. BV. > > "Benign Vanilla" <BVanillaREMOVE@tibetanbeefgarden.com> wrote in message > news:<30fu0aF2vqffgU1@uni-berlin.de>... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > BV. "However, the non-linear field equations of general relativity enable photons to interact gravitationally with each other. Wheeler coined the word "geon" to denote a swarm of massless particles bound together by the gravitational field associated with their energy, although he noted that such a configuration would be inherently unstable, viz., it would very rapidly either dissipate or shrink into complete gravitational collapse." http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-03/2-03.htm Double-A Hi Doubl-A Seems nature uses angular motion to balance the inward force of gravity. Gravity being a negative force only. Black holes prove gravity wins in the long run. Still it is the spinning of a black hole that keeps it up. That is why I theorize when it stops spinning it becomes a perfect sphere(circle) and has to collapse to its core,and this implosion releases the singularity,and we call that instant event a big bang,and a new universe is born with its own spacetime. All this comes out of my "Spin is in Theory" What came first gravity or angular motion? The answer is "gravity" Bert > Hi Doubl-A Seems nature uses angular motion to balance the inward force > of gravity. Gravity being a negative force only. Black holes prove > gravity wins in the long run. Still it is the spinning of a black hole > that keeps it up. What is it, exactly, that you imagine needs to be kept up??? > That is why I theorize when it stops spinning it > becomes a perfect sphere(circle) and has to collapse to its core,and > this implosion releases the singularity,and we call that instant event a > big bang,and a new universe is born with its own spacetime. All this > comes out of my "Spin is in Theory" What came first gravity or angular > motion? The answer is "gravity" Bert JohnZ the answer is its horizon. bert > JohnZ the answer is its horizon. bert Have you found a flaw in Schwarzschild's solution to Einstein's field equations that you're not sharing with the world??? JohnZ I share all my thoughts. To find fault with Schwarzchield with regards to Einstein's field equations you are giving my thoughts much to much credit. Bert nightbat wrote > Hi Doubl-A Seems nature uses angular motion to balance the inward force > of gravity. Gravity being a negative force only. Black holes prove [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > comes out of my "Spin is in Theory" What came first gravity or angular > motion? The answer is "gravity" Bert nightbat Disturbed energy multi state angular motion is proof of its non uniform momentum. Gravity is a local comparative weak force but dominant one on a Universal scale background frame and always an ultimate positive equalizing one. The base energy field conserves on to itself all momentum presently in observed disturbed angular chaotic state. There is only one scientifically observed Universe Bert, therefore the disturbed field evolving of multiple galaxies yes, but no real world anchored evidence for multi- verse theory except in some sci fi minds. Energy was there always and will last through infinity per mathematical proof, gravity is an default effect of the base unified energy field attempting renormalization. Hope your Thanksgiving was fine fella's, mine was great, I had to rest a little after the so great happy dinner and supper with family and friends. the nightbat <snip> > "However, the non-linear field equations of general relativity enable > photons to interact gravitationally with each other. Wheeler coined [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-03/2-03.htm Very cool...Although I'll need to re-read that article a few times to fully get it. LOL. BV. nightbat wrote > > > "Benign Vanilla" <BVanillaREMOVE@tibetanbeefgarden.com> wrote in message > > news:<30fu0aF2vqffgU1@uni-berlin.de>... [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Double-A nightbat Thanks for that very interesting link Double-A and the coined Wheeler term "geon" for multiple bound swarm of inclusive massless particles and is necessary and all right but not denoting enough for their large potential differentiating particular sub quantum multi state coexisting abundance. A more appropriate multi massless energy particle term would be for sub quantum overlapping state energy foam and its theoretical multi diversification plural particle applicable term as "partytum". A multi quantum Pauli non violating shelless state of gravitationally bound normally free massless group of centralized directed energy particles in internal super new energy massless acting group state. Directional pressure centralized spin forming and connecting to normal gravity metric background and bound existence permitting in heavy gravitational formed altered state field. The "partytum" energy massless particles wound be gravitationally group stable and dominant only while in a gravitationally formed effecting strong gravity field and therefore also permit subsequent elemental fusion and non classical singularity final disbursement especially once ejected out away from central originating mother galactic normal gravity field one. the nightbat Hi nightbat Glad you had a nice thanksgiving. Mine was very quite and made a pot roast. My wife does not like turkey. nighbat I did post a few days ago a "What if"and I had you in back of my mind. If you read it I put even macroscopic (10 miles in diameter) B H as being in another dimension of their own(not part of our universe's three. Got the idea naturally from the string theory. I posted this after I knew you had finished eating your turkey. Here is another kicker for you. Gravity its field,wave,or particle(graviton) is the only energy that can go through all dimensions. That means finding gravity waves is the most important thing scientist can achieve. Lets hope LIGO can do it. Bert nightbat wrote > > > "Benign Vanilla" <BVanillaREMOVE@tibetanbeefgarden.com> wrote in message > > news:<30fu0aF2vqffgU1@uni-berlin.de>... [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Double-A nightbat Thanks for that very interesting link Double-A and the coined Wheeler term "geon" for multiple bound swarm of inclusive massless particles and is necessary and all right but not denoting enough for their large potential differentiating particular sub quantum multi state coexisting abundance. A more appropriate multi massless energy particle term would be for sub quantum overlapping state energy foam and its theoretical multi diversification plural particle applicable term as "partytum". A multi quantum Pauli non violating shelless state of gravitationally bound normally free massless group of centralized directed energy particles in internal super new energy massless acting group state. Directional pressure centralized spin forming and connecting to normal gravity metric background and bound existence permitting in heavy gravitational formed altered state field. The "partytum" energy massless particles wound be gravitationally group stable and dominant only while in a gravitationally formed effecting strong gravity field and therefore also permit subsequent elemental fusion and non classical singularity final disbursement especially once ejected out away from central originating mother galactic normal gravity field one. the nightbat nightbat, your prose reminds me some of the style in which some of the postmodern poets, such as our own esteemed Virginia, have written in some of their published poetry. Only you use long successions of adjectives, while they use long successions of descriptive phrases. Just throw in a few commas, nightbat, and you could be right with the trend. Double-A nightbat wrote > nightbat wrote > [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > Double-A nightbat Yes, equations are better but 95% common population limiting. There is a reason Wheeler is considered a major force in theoretical physics due to his fatherly pointing original insight and work with other certain luminaries. The central point here is the general relativistic non-linear field equations permitted non Pauli state violating of condensed overlapping massless energy particles in confined particular gravity field. Ha, ha, ha, poetry is not my discipline interest that's Painius' or Twitties. Here I thought you might take issue with the term "partytum" for quantum pressure confined massless condensed multi group sub Planck state strong gravity evoking energy. the nightbat << nightbat, your prose reminds me some of the style in which some of the postmodern poets, such as our own esteemed Virginia, have written in some of their published poetry. Only you use long successions of adjectives, while they use long successions of descriptive phrases. Just throw in a few commas, nightbat, and you could be right with the trend. Double-A >> Some of us have neurologic disorders, it's just the best we can do with the cards god dealt us. _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A> > << nightbat, your prose reminds me some of the style in which some of the > postmodern poets, such as our own esteemed Virginia, have written in [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal > s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A> I meant no disrespect. I admire your many accomplishments. I was just trying to kid nightbat about his writing style. Double-A nightbat wrote > > << nightbat, your prose reminds me some of the style in which some of the > > postmodern poets, such as our own esteemed Virginia, have written in [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Double-A nightbat No need to kid Double-A for I have been told many times by my fans once you chose to open and read a nightbat post you can't help dropping and not reading it through despite your better judgment. Ha, ha, ha, ha, I hated reading Poe too but couldn't stop reading him once I started. What's you make on Darla's absence and who is this Dr. Strange? the nightbat > nightbat wrote > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > the nightbat All I know is that the Dr. Strange posts seem totally out of character for Darla postings. Double-A > > nightbat wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > > Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! > > > > <A HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal > > > > s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A> > > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Double-A Fascinating, Mr. A! In your estimation, precisely how do you come to this assessment? I would be forever in your debt if you would answer. Dr. Yubiwan, Ph.D. nightbat wrote > > nightbat wrote > Double-A > All I know is that the Dr. Strange posts seem totally out of character > for Darla postings. > > Double-A nightbat So you concur something is going on with the Darla alien comm not quite in form for our alien queen's and crew's normal posts. Yes, just as I dedused and suspected, but what or who is this Dr. Strange now taking over their communication initiative? The Dr. seems very familiar with us and yet comes across more critical of certain newsgroup members then Darla and the Commander ever were. An claimed alien astropsychologist with an referenced Earth based school Ph.D. title, hmmmmm, strange to say the least. I am now very concerned for our net cosmic Darla and crew, I hope they are all right. the nightbat nightbat wrote > > nightbat wrote > Double-A > All I know is that the Dr. Strange posts seem totally out of character > for Darla postings. > > Double-A nightbat So you concur something is going on with the Darla alien comm not quite in form for our alien queen's and crew's normal posts. Yes, just as I dedused and suspected, but what or who is this Dr. Strange now taking over their communication initiative? The Dr. seems very familiar with us and yet comes across more critical of certain newsgroup members then Darla and the Commander ever were. An claimed alien astropsychologist with an referenced Earth based school Ph.D. title, hmmmmm, strange to say the least. I am now very concerned for our net cosmic Darla and crew, I hope they are all right. the nightbat This Dr. Yubiwan does seem very familiar. In fact he reminds me a lot of a certain poster who was very prolific here several month's back, especially for his 24-hour marathon posting abilities. Do you suppose he has been away to Header Faking School? Double-A nightbat wrote > nightbat wrote > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Double-A nightbat Do you imply who I think you do, no not virginiaz or otherwise known as the Etherized, Brilliant One, now Twittering One? Hmmmmmm, they both use AOL so you might be right. I don't know, and Imperishable Stars used a different internet server altogether so I doubt it is him. And Min is purportedly out in Colorado so not likely. the nightbat > nightbat wrote > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > known as the Etherized, Brilliant One, now Twittering One? Hmmmmmm, they > both use AOL so you might be right. No, no! Not Virginia. She would never make posts like we've been seeing, neither would Darla. Darla used AT&T. > I don't know, and Imperishable Stars > used a different internet server altogether so I doubt it is him. Imperishable Stars/Mad Scientist is who I had in mind. He could have switched providers. Besides, everything in the headers seem to have been faked to look exactly like Darla's posts. > And > Min is purportedly out in Colorado so not likely. > > the nightbat Unless Darla has completely flipped out, my guess would be Imperishable! Double-A |
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