Space Forum / Astronomy / August 2009

On Jun 6, 1:46 pm, Saul Levy <saulle...@cox.net> wrote:

Thanks, Saul.  I have long wondered and speculated as to whether this
was happening.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/d8582c95f030912b?hl=en&dmode=source

Double-A

**Multiply six inches a year by 4 and a half billion since the Earth was
formed, and see what you get.  Earth would be long gone from the life zone,
which according to fossil records it had to be within during the last
billion years or so.

Our sun consumes or burns through 4.28e9 kg/sec
The original Sirius B of perhaps 8 solar masses had an expedited
timeline until reaching its white dwarf phase was reached 75 to 100
times faster stellar evolution than our sun reaching it’s white dwarf
phase in roughly 15e9 years.

Sirius B had to burn through its fuel at 2.5e12 kg/sec
In other words, having to burn through roughly 8 times as much mass in
1/75th the time is what represents an extremely vibrant star,
especially along with the original Sirius A at perhaps 3+ solar mass
and Sirius C at whatever it started out as perhaps worth <1 solar
mass.

Now that’s a seriously hot star that’s sharing substantial X-rays and
gamma, taking place at perhaps less than 10 light years from us, while
the red supergiant phase and its helium flashover (aka slow nova) into
becoming the little white dwarf happening even closer.

Our Earth and moon is losing mass at the very least 1e3 kg/sec,
combined with the 4.28e9 kg/sec that our sun is burning through and
the persistent 300~400 km/s of solar wind that’s pushing upon us (not
to mention the added force of halo CMEs), is suggesting it’s most
likely a gradual loss of gravity or reduction in tidal radius is
what’s causing the majority of our recession away from the sun.

This could actually become a good thing, especially if we somehow
manage to artificially cause Earth and our moon combined to lose 1e4
kg/sec, while our sun keeps getting more and more into the IR spectrum
that’ll eventually become an inflated  red giant of <250 times radii,
with fluctuation affects reaching out nearly to Mars radii, means that
Earth needs to get as far away form our sun as possible.

Nothing much to worry about: (as long as our geomagnetic force doesn’t
fail us)
http://spaceweather.gmu.edu/index_files/cme.jpg
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/images/lasco-c2-cme.jpg
http://www.astronomycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/cme.jpg
http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/gallery/images/large/suncombo1_prev.jpg
http://ct.gsfc.nasa.gov/insights/vol13/tele.htm

Btw, Sirius A has gone through at least 30% of it’s original mass, and
is about to become an impressive red supergiant of its own once
exceeding 33% consumption, especially with a nearby Sirius B sucking
the hydrogen life out of Sirius A, as such isn’t exactly retarding
this process.

~ BG

Here’s my revised/edited version of stellar timelines that’ll offer
some interpretation as to the life of the Sirius star/solar system,
and that of most likely having impacted our relatively nearby and
passive solar system.

Our sun consumes or burns through 4.28e9 kg/sec
The original Sirius B of perhaps 8 solar masses had an expedited
timeline up until reaching its recent white dwarf phase, as obtained
at least 75 to 100 times faster stellar evolution than our sun
reaching it’s white dwarf phase within roughly 150e9 years.  Actually
that more like a thousand fold faster stellar evolution required.

Sirius B had to burn through its fuel at 1e14 < 1e15 kg/sec
In other words, having to burn through roughly 8 times as much mass in
as little as 1/1000th the time is what represents an extremely vibrant
star, especially along with the original Sirius A at perhaps 3+ solar
mass and Sirius C at whatever it started out as perhaps worth <1 solar
mass is represent in heck of a great deal of burning through such
hydrogen and helium mass.

Now that’s a seriously hot star that’s sharing loads of substantial
hard-X-rays and gamma, taking place at perhaps less than 10 light
years from us, while the red supergiant phase and its helium flashover
(aka slow nova) into becoming the little white dwarf happening even
closer to us.

Our Earth and moon is losing mass at the very least 1e3 kg/sec,
combined with the 4.28e9 kg/sec that our sun is burning through, and
the persistent 300~400 km/s of solar wind that’s pushing upon us (not
to mention the added force of halo CMEs), is suggesting it’s most
likely this gradual loss of gravity or reduction in tidal radius is
what’s causing the majority of our recession away from the sun.

This could actually become a good thing, especially if we somehow
manage to artificially cause Earth and our moon combined to lose 1e4
kg/sec, while our sun keeps getting more and more into the IR spectrum
that’ll eventually become an inflated  red giant of <250 times radii,
with fluctuation affects and the increased loss of mass reaching out
nearly to Mars radii, means that Earth needs to get as far away form
our sun as possible, and the sooner the better.

Nothing all that much to worry about: (as long as our fading
geomagnetic force doesn’t entirely fail us)
http://spaceweather.gmu.edu/index_files/cme.jpg
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/images/lasco-c2-cme.jpg
http://www.astronomycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/cme.jpg
http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/gallery/images/large/suncombo1_prev.jpg
http://ct.gsfc.nasa.gov/insights/vol13/tele.htm

Btw, Sirius A has most likely gone through at least 30% of it’s
original mass, and is about to become an impressive red supergiant of
its very own once exceeding 33% consumption, especially with a nearby
Sirius B sucking the hydrogen life out of Sirius A, as such isn’t
exactly retarding this process.

Of course, within the next million years there’ll be considerably less
magnetosphere and insufficient terrestrial resources for Eden/Earth to
sustain much other than robust bugs, microbes and spores of whatever
we once had been.  That million years is a very short cosmic time, so
not to worry about such matters is best, even though advancing
technology could held salvage our otherwise certain demise.  Too bad
the previous million years of terrestrial life had been so wasted, and
perhaps better luck next time unless some faith-based cults have other
intentions.

~ BG

A combined loss of mass is reducing the gravitational force that’s
keeping us associated with our sun.  We are not getting heavier, but
then you’d much rather believe anything published by your Zionist Nazi
masters. What’s so hard to figure otherwise?

Here’s my further revised/edited version of stellar timelines that’ll
offer some interpretation as to the recent birth and life of the
Sirius star/solar system, and that of this process most likely having
impacted our relatively nearby and passive solar system.

Our sun consumes or burns through 4.28e9 kg/sec
The original Sirius B of perhaps 8 solar masses had an expedited
timeline up until reaching its recent white dwarf phase, as obtained
at least 100 times faster stellar evolution than our sun reaching it’s
white dwarf phase within roughly 250e9 years (in other words for us,
our sun is never going to die unless something extremely large smacks
into it).  Actually that’s more like a thousand fold faster stellar
evolution required, because Sirius B many have survived for as little
as 200 million years before having become the white dwarf.

Sirius B had to burn through its fuel at 1e14 < 1e15 kg/sec
In other words, having to burn through roughly 8 times as much mass in
as little as 1/1000th the time is what represents an extremely vibrant
(nearly exploding) kind of star, especially along with the original
Sirius A at perhaps 3+ solar mass and Sirius C at whatever it started
out as perhaps worth <1 solar mass is representing one heck of a great
deal of burning through such volumes of hydrogen and helium mass.

Now that’s a seriously hot star system that’s sharing loads of
substantial hard-X-rays and gamma, taking place at perhaps less than
10 light years from us, while the red supergiant phase and its helium
flashover (aka slow nova) into becoming the little white dwarf
happening even closer to us.

Our Earth and moon are each losing mass, and at the very least we are
losing 1e3 kg/sec, combined with the 4.28e9 kg/sec that our sun is
burning through, and given the persistent 300~400 km/s of solar wind
that’s pushing upon us (not to mention the added force of halo CMEs),
is suggesting it’s most likely this gradual loss of gravity or
reduction in tidal radius is what’s causing the majority of our
recession away from the sun.

This could actually become a good thing, especially if we somehow
manage to artificially cause Earth and our moon combined to lose 1e4
kg/sec, while our sun keeps getting more and more into the IR spectrum
that’ll eventually become an inflated  red giant of <250 times radii,
with fluctuation affects and the increased loss of mass reaching out
nearly to Mars radii, means that Earth needs to get as far away form
our sun as possible, and the sooner the better.

Nothing all that much to worry about: (as long as our fading
geomagnetic force doesn’t entirely fail us)
http://spaceweather.gmu.edu/index_files/cme.jpg
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/images/lasco-c2-cme.jpg
http://www.astronomycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/cme.jpg
http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/gallery/images/large/suncombo1_prev.jpg
http://ct.gsfc.nasa.gov/insights/vol13/tele.htm

Btw, Sirius A has most likely gone through at least 30% of it’s
original mass, and is about to become an impressive red supergiant of
its very own once exceeding 33% consumption, especially with a nearby
Sirius B sucking the hydrogen life out of Sirius A, as such isn’t
exactly retarding this process.

Of course, within the next million years there’ll be considerably less
magnetosphere and insufficient terrestrial resources for Eden/Earth to
sustain much other than robust bugs, microbes and spores of whatever
we once had been.  That million years is a very short cosmic time, so
not to worry about such matters is best, even though advancing
technology could held salvage our otherwise certain demise.  Too bad
the previous million years of terrestrial life had been so wasted, and
perhaps better luck next time unless some faith-based cults have other
intentions.

~ BG

A combined loss of mass is reducing the gravitational force that’s
keeping us associated with our sun.  We are simply not getting
heavier, but then most of us would much rather believe anything
published by your Zionist Nazi masters of mainstream infomercials and
false eye-candy deception. What’s so hard to figure otherwise?

Here’s my further revised/edited version of stellar timelines that’ll
offer some alternative interpretation as to the recent birth and life
of the Sirius star/solar system, and that of this process most likely
having impacted our relatively nearby and passive solar system.

Our sun consumes or burns through 4.28e9 kg/sec
The original Sirius B of perhaps 8 solar masses had an expedited
timeline up until reaching its recent white dwarf phase, as obtained
at least 100 times faster stellar evolution than our sun reaching it’s
white dwarf phase within roughly 250e9 years (in other words for us,
our sun is never going to die unless something extremely large smacks
into it).  Actually that’s more like a thousand fold faster stellar
evolution required, because Sirius B may have survived for as little
as 200 million years before having become the white dwarf.

Sirius B had to burn through its fuel at 1e14 < 1e15 kg/sec
In other words, having to burn through roughly 8 times as much mass in
as little as 1/1000th the time is what represents an extremely vibrant
(nearly exploding) kind of star, especially along with the original
Sirius A at perhaps 3+ solar mass and Sirius C at whatever it started
out as perhaps worth <1 solar mass is representing one heck of a great
deal of burning through such volumes of hydrogen and helium mass.

Now that’s a seriously hot star system that’s sharing loads of
substantial hard-X-rays and gamma, taking place at perhaps less than
10 light years from us, while the red supergiant phase and its helium
flashover (aka slow nova) into becoming the little white dwarf
happening even closer to us.

Our Earth and moon are each losing mass, and at the very least we are
losing 1e3 kg/sec, combined with the 4.28e9 kg/sec that our sun is
burning through, and given the persistent 300~400 km/s of solar wind
that’s pushing upon us (not to mention the added force of halo CMEs),
is suggesting it’s most likely this gradual loss of gravity or
reduction in tidal radius is what’s causing the majority of our
recession away from the sun.

This could actually become a good thing, especially if we somehow
manage to artificially cause Earth and our moon combined to lose 1e4
kg/sec, while our sun keeps getting more and more into the IR spectrum
that’ll eventually become an inflated  red giant of <250 times radii,
with fluctuation affects and the increased loss of mass reaching out
nearly to Mars radii, means that Earth needs to get as far away form
our sun as possible, and the sooner the better.

Nothing all that much to worry about: (as long as our fading
geomagnetic force doesn’t entirely fail us)
http://spaceweather.gmu.edu/index_files/cme.jpg
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/images/lasco-c2-cme.jpg
http://www.astronomycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/cme.jpg
http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/gallery/images/large/suncombo1_prev.jpg
http://ct.gsfc.nasa.gov/insights/vol13/tele.htm

Btw, Sirius A has most likely gone through at least 30% of it’s
original mass, and is about to become an impressive red supergiant of
its very own once exceeding 33% consumption, especially with a nearby
Sirius B sucking the hydrogen life out of Sirius A, as such isn’t
exactly retarding this process.

Of course, within the next million years there’ll be considerably less
magnetosphere and insufficient terrestrial resources for Eden/Earth to
sustain much other than robust bugs, microbes and spores of whatever
we once had been.  That million years is a very short cosmic time, so
not to worry about such matters is best, even though advancing
technology could held salvage our otherwise certain demise.  Too bad
the previous million years of terrestrial life had been so wasted, and
perhaps better luck next time unless some faith-based cults have other
intentions.

~ BG

Six inches a year is such a small amount that 4.5 billion
years ago (if that rate has not changed) and using the
present approximate Earth-Sun distance of 93 million
miles, the Earth has moved about 1/2 a million miles
outward from the Sun.  Back then it would have been
92.5 million miles away from the Sun.  And this is why
the astronomers i've talked to consider the tidal effect
between the Sun and planets to be insignificant.

It is in fact so insignificant even between the Earth and
the Moon that both these PLANETS will be gravitationally
bound to each other even 7.5 billion years from now,
which is the max time for the Sun to go Red Giant.

This might, however, explain some of the Sun's loss of
angular momentum and why the Sun, with the most
mass has by far the smallest angular momentum of all
the orbs in the Solar system.

happy days and...
  starry starry nights!

On Jun 15, 3:29 am, "Painius" <starswirlern...@maol.com> wrote:

In spite of whatever our resident rabbi Saul Levy spews from between
his mainstream infomercial butt-cheeks, you are most correct, in that
the earth-sun tidal interaction is extremely minor, whereas the
ongoing loss of 1e10 kg/sec is not so minor.

Actually, in order for that main sequence red giant phase too begin
within just 7.5 billion years, our sun of 12 billion years would have
had to have been consuming plus tossing off a combined average of at
least 1e11 kg/sec (100 million tonnes/sec), and otherwise the more
than likely average loss of 1e12 kg/sec (1000 million tonnes/sec)
seems closer to the truth because, 1e12 kg/sec represents a more
respectable 12 billion year loss of 17.765% from an original solar
mass of 2.13e30 kg.

Unless my math is wrong (wouldn’t be the first time), or that a given
main sequence star simply doesn’t have to burn through nearly as much
of its hydrogen, whereas it seems we’ve been systematically
misinformed about how much mass a given star has to consume and/or
blow off before going into its red giant phase.

~ BG

Our sun, most planets and moons are losing mass by the tonnes/sec:
In other fewer words;  if our sun is supposedly going into its red
giant phase as of a 12 billion year lifetime, the average loss of
mostly hydrogen mass would have to be more like losing at least 1e12
kg/sec (1000 million tonnes per second), and otherwise not the wussy
4e6 tonnes as suggested by the vast bulk of what our mainstream closed
mindset has to say.

This also means that Sirius B was in fact a very large and extremely
massive star of perhaps 8+ solar masses to begin with, and that it was
extremely bright as it so quickly burned through and ejected a combine
7 solar masses within ~250 million years, before the helium flashover
and becoming the little white dwarf that we can barely see today
(though essentially an invisible spectrum to the human eye).

With a given loss of mass represents a given loss of gravity and of
its tidal radii, and mass and gravity sort of go hand and hand.

~ BG

What DOOM AND GLOOM?

Saul Levy

Me Neither... I believe thats why Saul wanted to see me death... so he
wont to have to Silver as tribute...

http://24carat.co.uk/images/1329morocco1911tendirhamsobv240.JPG

On Jun 8, 3:13 pm, "Luigi Caselli" <luigicase...@anyspamrefusediol.it>
wrote:

Right, let the next generations pay for everything.  Sounds like
you're set for life, and haven't a bone of remorse to worry about.
Good for you.

~ BG

Mine is on too, Luigi!  The thermostat set up only half way.

We're having a COOLER late spring than normal.  Maybe summer will be a
cooler one too.

Global COOLING you know!

Saul Levy

On Jun 8, 3:13 pm, "Luigi Caselli" <luigicase...@anyspamrefusediol.it>
wrote:

Instead, relocate our moon out to Earth L1.  That'll cut the solar
energy by 3%, and reduce tides to roughly half.

~ BG

On Jun 9, 12:13 am, "Luigi Caselli"
<luigicase...@anyspamrefusediol.it> wrote:

we will freeze to death... like the people of Mars have frozen to
death and became green... Why we call Martians green man, they have
frozen their arse till gran'da'dy collected his silver and saved them
by his star gate to this world...

Right some of us here on this world are the Martians...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men

they where green because their world was to far away to receive the
needed solar energy... why man in the future has to Venus... but how
will do that if he even can't go the moon... the great question... how
can we get away from a Doomed world?

Is it 10^11 or 10^12, JACKASS GOOFBALL?  lmfjao!

You are MAKING IT ALL UP because you HAVEN'T A CLUE!

Saul Levy

It takes a fairly substantial consumption and/or staggering CME loss
of roughly at least a third stellar mass before becoming a full blown
red giant, making Betelgeuse originally worth an impressive 30+ solar
masses.

http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2009/06/betelgeuse_about_to_blow.html
Yes indeed, perhaps Betelgeuse should blow our socks off, with one
hell of a nova as it becomes a fairly substantial white dwarf or
possibly turns into a neutron star, especially soon if there's an
ongoing shrinkage of 1%/year (actually it has already taken place as
of more than 500 years ago).

Here’s my further revised/edited version of stellar timelines that’ll
offer some alternative interpretation as to the recent birth and life
of the Sirius star/solar system, and of this process most likely
having impacted our relatively nearby and passive solar system.

Our sun supposedly consumes or burns through 4.28e9 kg/sec? (or rather
its more like burning through and otherwise tossing away <3e12 kg/sec,
and perhaps even 4e12 kg/sec if taking less than 12 billion years of
its stellar life to become a white dwarf).  Supposedly within another
4 billion years our sun will be noticeably expanding, and by 7.5
billion from now it should have become a full blown red giant of at
least 250 radii before the shrinkage and helium flashover into
becoming a white dwarf of no larger than Mars.

The original Sirius B of perhaps 8+ solar masses had an extremely
short timeline up until reaching its recent white dwarf phase, as
having obtained this status at least a thousand times faster stellar
evolution than our sun reaching it’s white dwarf phase within roughly
250e9 years (in other words, at 4.28e9 kg/sec our sun is almost never
going to die off unless something extremely large smacks into it).  On
the other nearby hand, Sirius B may have evolved within as little as
200 million years before having become the white dwarf as of perhaps
64 million years ago.

Sirius B had to burn through its fuel and toss mass at <4e16 kg/sec
In other words, having to consume roughly 8 times as much mass in as
little as 1/60th the time is what has to represent an extremely
vibrant neighbor (as nearly exploding or slow nova kind of star),
especially along with the original of Sirius A at perhaps 3 solar mass
and Sirius C at whatever it started out as perhaps worth <1 solar
mass, all together is representing one heck of a great deal of stellar
mass burning and CMEs of sufficient stellar volumes of mostly hydrogen
and helium mass.

Now that’s a seriously hot star system that’s sharing loads of
substantial hard-X-rays and gamma, taking place at perhaps less than
10 light years from us, while the red supergiant phase and its helium
flashover (aka slow nova) into becoming the little white dwarf as
happening even closer to us, and perhaps closer yet if there’s any
barycenter orbital considerations due to the original molecular cloud
of at least 1.2e6 solar masses that had to exist as of 250~350 million
years ago.

Our Earth and moon are also each losing mass, and at the very least we
are losing 1e3 kg/sec, combined with the 3e12 kg/sec that our sun is
losing, given the persistent 350~450 km/s of solar wind that’s pushing
upon us (not to mention the added force of halo CMEs), is suggesting
it’s most likely this gradual loss of such gravity and the unavoidable
reduction in tidal radius is what’s causing the majority of our
extremely gradual recession away from the sun.

This could actually become a good thing, especially if we somehow
manage to artificially cause Earth and our moon combined to lose <1e4
kg/sec, while our sun keeps getting more into the IR spectrum that’ll
eventually become an inflated  red giant of <250 times radii, along
with fluctuation affects and the increased loss of mass reaching out
nearly to Mars radii, means that Earth needs to get as far away form
our sun as possible, and the sooner the better.

Nothing all that much to worry about: (as long as our fading
geomagnetic force doesn’t entirely fail us)
http://spaceweather.gmu.edu/index_files/cme.jpg
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/images/lasco-c2-cme.jpg
http://www.astronomycast.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/cme.jpg
http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/gallery/images/large/suncombo1_prev.jpg
http://ct.gsfc.nasa.gov/insights/vol13/tele.htm

Btw, Sirius A has most likely gone through nearly 30% of it’s original
mass, and is about to become an impressive red supergiant of its very
own once exceeding 33% via consumption and CME losses, especially with
a nearby Sirius B sucking the hydrogen life out of Sirius A, as such
isn’t exactly retarding this process.

Of course, within the next million years there’ll be considerably less
magnetosphere and insufficient terrestrial resources for Eden/Earth to
sustain much other than robust bugs, microbes and spores of whatever
we once had been.  That million years is actually a very short cosmic
amount of time, so not to worry about such matters is best, even
though advancing technology could help salvage our otherwise certain
demise.  Too bad the previous million years of terrestrial life had
been so wasted, and otherwise perhaps better luck next time unless
some faith-based cults have other intentions.

~ BG

Dumb Josee

I'm sorry.  Are you not quite a 5th grader? (can't do basic math?)

~ BG

Gravity Force of Attraction (orbital tidal radius)
http://www.1728.com/gravity.htm
http://www.wsanford.com/~wsanford/calculators/gravity-calculator.html

current (sun ~ earth) gravitational force of attraction:
1.989e30 and 5.974e24 kg at 1.496e11 m = 3.541e22 N

Add or subtract whatever mass to either orb, and do the math for
yourself, or at the very least use either of those gravity force
calculators.

Our sun has been using up and otherwise tossing away via CME plasma
somewhere between 2e12 and 3e12 kg/sec.  Why shouldn't Earth be moving
away from this sun of ours, as based almost entirely upon the orbital
laws of physics that pertain to mass?

~ BG

That's a bit too weird, even for you.

~ BG

You call that HOLY WORK, PIGSHIT?  lmfjao!

It's more like UNholy work.  The work of that DEVIL which is eating up
your BRAIN!

The only reason to want you DEAD is because you are EVIL!

Saul Levy

Earth isn't growing by mass, although in limited places it's expanding
in size, but on average its innards are in fact cooling off and the
world is thereby gradually shrinking as the crust gets ever so
slightly thicker.  Eden/Earth could on average be losing up to a tonne/
sec of mostly helium and hydrogen, but then you and others here really
do not care.

Our sun supposedly converts 4.28e9 kg/sec of its mass into everything
from IR to gamma.  However, our NASA is now publishing a suggested
hydrogen consumption rate of 5.443e11 kg/sec, but even this by itself
still isn’t the all-inclusive story of how much mass our sun has to
consume and expel/sec.   It has to consume plus toss away an average
mass of nearly 4e12 kg/sec if it’s ever going to reach the red giant
phase and morph itself into that little white dwarf within the next 5+
billion years.  So how is that not reducing its gravity and tidal
radii potential?

Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”