Nothingness. ? !!!
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socratus - 17 Aug 2008 08:03 GMT Nothingness. ? !!! ============ ========= =..
Nothingness of Space Could Illuminate the Theory of Everything . ============ ========. Could the vacuum contain dark energy, gravity particles, and frictionless gears? by Tim Folger published online July 18, 2008
When the next revolution rocks physics, chances are it will be about nothing—the vacuum, that endless infinite void.
http://discovermaga zine.com/ topics/space
http://discovermagazine.com/2008/aug/18-nothingness-of-space-theory-of-everything
# " The problem of the exact description of vacuum, in my opinion, is the basic problem now before physics. Really, if you can’t correctly describe the vacuum, how it is possible to expect a correct description of something more complex? "
/ Paul Dirac ./ # "Now we know that the vacuum can have all sorts of wonderful effects over an enormous range of scales, from the microscopic to the cosmic,"
/ Peter Milonni. from the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico./ ============ ==.
What is the first law of Universe ? =========. The Physics is first of all Vacuum. Vacuum is :T=0K. It is the empty space between milliards of billions Galaxies. * * * Once upon a time, 20 billions of years ago, all matter (all elementary particles and all quarks and their girlfriends- antiparticles and antiquarks, all kinds of waves: electromagnetic, gravitational, muons gluons field .. etc.) was assembled in a single point.
It is interesting to think about what had surrounded the single point. The answer is : EMPTINESS- NOTHING.!!! Ok! But why does everyone speak about EMPTINESS- NOTHING in common phrases rather than in specific, concrete terms? I wonder why nobody has written down this EMPTINESS- NOTHING in the form of a physical formula ? You see, every schoolboy knows that is possible to express the EMPTINESS- NOTHING condition by the formula T=0K. * * * Once there was a Big Bang. But in what space had the Big Bang taken place and in what space was the matter of the Big Bang distributed? Not in T=0K? It is clear, that there is only EMPTINESS, NOTHING, in T=0K. Now consider that the Universe, as an absolute frame of reference is in a condition of T = 2,7K (rests relic radiation of the Big Bang ). But, the relic radiation is extended and in the future will change and decrease. What temperature can this radiation reach? Not T=0K? Hence, if we go into the past or into the present or into the future, we can not escape from EMPTINESS- NOTHING T=0K. Therefore it is necessary to begin to think from T=0K. ============ =======. About the theory of the Big Bang is written the thick (very thick) books. But anywhere do not write about the reason of the Big Bang. Anybody does not know it. I know. Action, when the God opens his palm, have named the "Big Bang". And action, when the God compresses his palm, have named " a single point". ============ ========= ======.
Now it is consider that Newton / Einstein’s laws of gravitation are the first laws of Universe. ============ 1. Newton was a clever man therefore when he discovered his " law of gravitation" he quickly understood that soon or later the all matter in the Universe had to gather in the " singular point". And because this effect does not happen in the Nature, Newton , being very religious man , thought that only God’s power did not give the matter to gather in a " singular point". 2. And then atheistic time came. They decided : As God does not exist, so the all matter in Universe must gather in a " singular point". ============ ==== I don’t agree that Newton / Einstein’s laws of gravitation are the first laws of Universe. Why? 1. Take simple atom: proton and electron,( small distances). Nobody interests in gravitation interaction between proton and electron . There is not any theory about gravitation interaction between proton and electron . Everybody interests only in electrical ( nuclear) interaction between them. It means that Newton / Einstein’s laws of gravitation are local and limited. This law in the small ( nuclear) distance does not work. 2. Take Universe ( cosmic distances). There is not theory about gravitation interaction between galaxy A. and galaxy Z. We don’t need it. Why? For example. Let’s imagine of all apple- trees on our Earth as a galaxy, and apples as stars. Nobody will interest in the interaction between an apple- tree in New York ( galaxy A.) and an apple- tree (cherry-tree) in Varanasi (galaxy Z.). It means that Newton / Einstein’s laws of gravitation are local and limited. This law in the big cosmic distance does not work. 3. Detected material mass of the matter in the Universe is so small (the average density of all substance in the Universe is approximately p=10^-30 g/sm^3) that it is not able to isolate all cosmic space in sphere. It mean that Universe (Vacuum) is infinite. ========= Conclusion: Newton / Einstein’s laws of gravitation cannot be " The first law of Universe." ============ ==== What is the second law of Universe ? To answer of this question we must ask: " What geometrical and physical parameters have the particles in Vacuum T=0K? " 1. Thermodynamics point. Let us take some area of Vacuum and mark it with letter R. The number of particles in this area of Vacuum we will to mark with letter N. When every particle of this area has gravity/ mass of rest: R/N= k. ============ ======= 2. Quantum (SRT) point. Classic physics asserts, that in a Vacuum Ò=0Ê cease any motion of particles, and the energy of Vacuum is equal zero. The quantum physics asserts, that in a Vacuum Ò=0Ê there are motion of particles, and the energy of Vacuum is not zero. Let us take some energy area of Vacuum and mark it with letter E. The mass of this energy area of Vacuum we will to mark with letter M. When every particle of this area has energy/mass of rest: E/M= c^2, ( E=Mc^2, M=Ec^2.) ============ ========= == 3. Geometry and Physics. The Modern Physics was started from two points: thermodynamics and light. 1. By studying the effect of thermodynamics, physicists came to the opinion that the physical parameters like volume, temperature and density (of particles mass) are enough to discover the laws of thermodynamics, and they didn’t need to know something concrete about single particle. But then, soon or later, all mass of this particles will stop it’s moving and the thermal/ radiation death will come. Is it possible? No, it isn’t , some particles will radiate and then QT evolved from this idea. Now the situation radically change. From studying mass of particles in thermodynamics Planck and Einstein began to study one individual particle (quantum of energy). It seams that it was logical to think about geometrical form of this particle, but this did not happen. And still now physicists do not think about concrete particles, they are concerned about the " mathematical point". 2. When physicists studied the behavior of light, they came to the conclusion that light ( light quanta) can sometime be a particle as a " mathematical point" and sometime a wave as a " mathematical wave". From behavior of light the SRT was born and here the particle is also " mathematical point". It is hard to understand, why nobody think about geometrical form of light quanta if it is real particle. 3. For many years, physicists used Euclidian (static and firm ) geometry for solving physical problems, and they thought there was only one geometry. But Lobachevsky and Bolyai had another opinion. They thought that to use only Euclidian geometry was not enough to explain all the effects in the Universe. Why, because our Universe is not static and firm. The physical processes in Universe change all the time so the Euclidian geometry also has to change. This lead Lobachevsky and Bolyai to discover Non-Euclidian geometry which is not static but elastic. 4. Between the XIX and XX century, many physicists such Abraham, Poincare, Lorentz and Einstein came to the conclusion that the particle (electron) does not have constant mass, energy and length. This means that an electron is not a firm particle. The electron is an elastic particle and therefore his geometrical form can change. All physicists know about this fact and took this fact in their calculations. But which conclusion can be done from this fact? They have no answer. Nobody interested about the borders of this changes. 5. In 1915 Einstein said the mass and speed (moving mass) can change the geometry of space. (GRT). It means the physics without geometry is a limited part of science. It means the physics without geometry is not complete (whole) part of science. 6. The situation we see today is similar to the years between 1900 and 1928 when QT was created. Nothing changes. Mathematicians use Non- Euclidian geometry and they do not know the power of these changes from Euclidian to Non-Euclidian geometry. They do not interested how these changes came. And physicists use forces (energy, impulse, ...etc) without know anything about geometrical changes of particles. They do not think about this. For them the particle is only represented by a " mathematical point". After all, they say the situation in QT is crazy, the Nature is paradoxical. I know why they say this, because one hand "physical doesn,t know that the other hand "geometrical" does. 7. Can we understand our " paradoxical" world? The answer is clear. In the Natural world, physics and geometry are one unit part in the evolutionary process, and this fact must be reflected in any future theory of the evolution of matter (as a mass and as an individual particle). ------------ --------- --. The Natural world is not a " mathematical point". Even the smallest object must have a geometrical form. And on my opinion, only when we begin to think about light quanta as a particle with a geometrical form we come from image to reality. ------------ -------. P.S. Italy. Railway station. It was more then two hours till the departure of the train. I went to the café and ordered a cup of coffee. Soon two men and a very beautiful, slim woman took place opposite me. They ordered something to drink and one of the man opened a case of violin and took out a bow. He began to explain something about a bow , carefully and gently touching it. Then another man took this bow and also enthusiastically continued this conversation. For half an hour the bow was passed from one hands to another following with enthusiastic discussion. And the beautiful woman looked at bow, at both these men without saying a word. For half an hour I watched this group with admiration and excitement. What a class! What a cultural level! What a beauty! =======================.. And now let's imagine the bow pressed into a "mathematical point" and the musicians speak seriously about a " mathematical point " which must produce a sound from a violin. Everybody will say I describe an idiotic situation. Well, I agree. But why don’t anybody say it to physicists when they observe the elementary particle as a " mathematical point " , without paying attention to its geometrical form. ==========.. P.S. When Feynman said " I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. " it was only because nobody took into consideration the geometrical form of particle. ================.
In 1787, French physicist Jack Charles found out that at a decrease of gas temperature to 1 degree, its volume decreases on 1/273 : " Charles' law ". And when the temperature reaches -273 degrees the volume disappears. This law was confirmed by others of physicists: Gay-Lussac ( 1802), W. Nernst ( 1910), A. Einstein ( 1925) All these laws (as consequence from the Third Law of Thermodynamics ) tell, when the temperature goes closer to zero T=0K, then the particles lose more their volume. The volume of these particles aspires to infinity. Unless can it be? No. It prohibits with the "Law of conservation and transformation energy". Its mean, when volume of the particles disappear they become indefinitely flat circles - phantoms. So, they can only change its geometrical form and its kinetic energy and become “flat particles” with potential energy. These flat particles must have geometrical form of a circle C/D= pi = 3,14…..So, it is mistaken to think about elementary Particle as about a "mathematical point". What does "indefinitely flat circles means? It means, that we cannot reach Absolute Vacuum T=0K and we cannot reach density of the particle in the rest . ============ ========= . 4. Mathematical point. In mathematics, such condition of the particle in Vacuum is characterized with the imaginary quantity : i^2=-1. ============ ========= ========= . The quantum physics approves, that `virtual particles` exist in Vacuum Astrophysics approves, that "latent mass", "invisible particles", 'missing mass', 'dark matter' exist in Vacuum. Everything was created from them. But nobody knows that it is. They say, that 90% or more of the matter in the Universe is unseen. They are right. ============ ========= . We have now whole bouquet of formulas to begin to paint the picture of creating the Existence.
C/D=pi , E=Mc^2, R/N=k , h = 0 , i^2 = -1 . ============ ========= ========= =====. Does not anybody see how beautiful this bouquet of formulas? ============ . Israel Ssdovnik./ Socratus. http://www.socratus .com http://www.wbabin. net ===============..
oldcoot - 20 Aug 2008 14:25 GMT It's surprizing nobody's commented on this post by Mr. Socrates wherein he linked to this Discover magazine article -
> http://discovermagazine.com/2008/aug/18-nothingness-of-space-theory-o... ..Wherein this interesting statement is made -
"Empty space wasn’t always so mystifying. Until the 1920s physicists viewed the vacuum much as the rest of us still do: as a featureless nothingness, a true void. That all changed with the birth of quantum mechanics. According to that theory, the space around a particle is filled with countless “virtual” particles rapidly bursting into and out of existence like an invisible fireworks display."
OK, let's take the first part of the statement, "Empty space wasn’t always so mystifying. Until the 1920s physicists viewed the vacuum much as the rest of us still do: as a featureless nothingness, a true void."
First off, the writer's got this bass-ackward. Up until the 1920s the reality of the spatial medium, the "aether", was widely accepted in science. Witness Einstein's famous University of Leyden lecture of May 5, 1920. Then in the mid-1920s he made the seemingly innocent and innocuous little statement, "Remember gentlemen, we have not proven the aether does not exist, we have only proven we do not need it (for mathematical purposes)".. meaning that space can be treated mathematically _as if_ it were a void, not that it *is* a void. But the mainstream pounced on it, spun it, and trumpeted that the Primacy of Math now supplanted the old superstition. A new age of enlightenment was born. The "aether" was dead. And the Void-Space Paradigm was born. And Einstein, for reasons known only to himself, went along with the 'No Medium' doctrine to the end of his days.
And then the second part of the statement, "That all changed with the birth of quantum mechanics. According to that theory, the space around a particle is filled with countless “virtual” particles rapidly bursting into and out of existence like an invisible fireworks display."
No, quantum mechanics took the stage *subservient* to the new 'No Medium' doctrine, and functioned as a wholly owned subsidiary of it (and has to this day). It's had to invent and ad hoc an awful lot of stuff. "Virtual particles bursting into and out of existance" still begs the question "into and out of 'What'?" Same with 'quantum foam'. A foam of 'What'? And string theory. Strings of 'What'? To answer the simple question of 'What?' remains the one Ultimate Taboo, the "Thou shall not go there" commandment.
And to think that this was hatched out of whole cloth as an edict of pure fiat barely 85 years ago.
> " The problem of the exact description of vacuum, in my opinion, > is the basic problem now before physics. Really, if you can’t [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > / Peter Milonni. > from the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico./ G=EMC^2 Glazier - 20 Aug 2008 15:16 GMT oc Empty is a bad word to describe macro space(space between the stars) It just has hydrogen gas very thinned out. Micro space between electrons and nucleus has even more space but never completely empty. You want to find a very busy and more congested space you have to go inside a Planck length. Here is Planck energy. Here isPlanck mass. Here all is close and makes these submicroscopic particles act like they are in a frenzy. Here is the heart of the universe. Here is where waves and particles get together by quantum gravity. Here is where the other three forces will be created. Here is where relativity can not work. No smooth space here No macro spacetime that fits. Its in Planck time. Could be I am talking about being inside a singularity. Big bang might have started by space tearing?? Best I stop here before I start thinking outside the box. I think I know what Schrodinger cat went through when in the box. Go figure Nothing can not be used in any part of our thinking of the universe. Mother nature even hates the vacuum,and that is why it is filled to the top with all the tiny stuff Bert
socratus - 21 Aug 2008 06:36 GMT > oc Empty is a bad word to describe macro space(space between the stars) > It just has hydrogen gas very thinned out. Micro space between [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > vacuum,and that is why it is filled to the top with all the tiny stuff > Bert When the next revolution rocks physics, chances are it will be about nothing—the vacuum, that endless infinite void. http://discovermagazine.com/2008/aug/18-nothingness-of-space-theory-o... ===================. When the next revolution rocks physics, chances are it will be about nothing—the vacuum, that endless infinite void. Why?
When Einstein worked on GRT, he asked astronomers: “ What is the average mass of matter in the Universe?” The result was lamentable. The quantity of mass was insignificantly small. The detected material mass of the matter in the Universe is so small (the average density of all substance in the Universe is approximately p=10^-30 g/sm^3) that the gravitation law doesn't work. It was impossible to keep gravitation law with such insignificantly little mass and so, the Universe must be “open”, endless. But what to do with the infinite space, Einstein didn’t know. Therefore he took (from the heaven) “ the cosmological constant” in order to “close” the Universe. The taken mass was enough for creating the condition of gravitation. Without “ the cosmological constant” the Universe is endless. Astronomers and astrophysicists know about this fact and therefore (to save the gravitation law) invented new matter a "dark matter", a new energy a “dark energy” and another abstract objects. “The Dark Matter is another official dogma of our astronomy.”/ V.H.Vergon / This “ invention” is only a result of our mentality , which says: ” If in a theory you meet infinity it means the theory is nonsense”. It is very hard to take that the Universe is infinite. It is no easy matter to give up a lifetime of habit . The Universe / Vacuum as a whole is endless. ================================
G=EMC^2 Glazier - 21 Aug 2008 14:09 GMT Socratus Einstein knew the space between the stars was he most dynamic part of the universe I only added my thoughts to his bert
oldcoot - 21 Aug 2008 14:21 GMT > When the next revolution rocks physics, > chances are it will be about nothing—the vacuum, that endless > infinite void. Yeah. The "Pneuma" of our age.
> When Einstein worked on GRT, he asked astronomers: > “ What is the average mass of matter in the Universe?” [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > must be “open”, endless. But what to do with the infinite > space, Einstein didn’t know. In this model, the centerpiece 'Engine' or Primal Particle has 'waaay more than sufficient mass to gravitationally close the universe, and account for the problem of "missing mass" - http://community-2.webtv.net/oldcoot/ContinuousBigBang/
> Therefore he (Einstein) took (from the > heaven) “ the cosmological constant” in order to “close” > the Universe. The taken mass was enough for creating the > condition of gravitation. Without “ the cosmological constant” > the Universe is endless. He later recanted the CC or 'steady state' idea as his "biggest blunder". But in the model illustrated above, the Steady State idea is validated and affirmed, but in a much bigger way than he envisioned.
G=EMC^2 Glazier - 26 Aug 2008 13:30 GMT oc Nothing has no place in our universe. Nothing means non existing,and here we are. The universe could not rise up out of nothing. bert
oldcoot - 27 Aug 2008 03:29 GMT > Nothing has no place in our universe. Nothing means non existing,and > here we are. The universe could not rise up out of nothing. Not according to the biggest mukky muks out there. During an interview, Dr. Michio Kaku, parodying Genesis 1, had this to say:
"...And because of the quantum principle, there were fluctuations, fluctuations in nothing. This means that bubbles began to form in nothing, and these bubbles began to expand rapidly..."
So Something arose magically out of 'Nothing' and here we is. These guys with the big brains can rattle this stuff off with a straight face and without the slightest hint of embarrassment. Simply amazing. "Bubbles in Nothing" harkens to that oft-cited parable of Mr.Fish deep in the ocean who sees a gas bubble that's come out of solution. He deems the bubble as 'being' and the much-more- substantial ocean in which it's embedded as 'not-being' or Nothing.
Painius - 27 Aug 2008 08:30 GMT >> Nothing has no place in our universe. Nothing means non existing,and >> here we are. The universe could not rise up out of nothing. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > out of solution. He deems the bubble as 'being' and the much-more- > substantial ocean in which it's embedded as 'not-being' or Nothing. BUT, BUT, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (HUP) ALLOWS for these bubbles, these fluctuations in the "CONTINUUM" ("nothing") to happen!!!! Therefore, this quite "possibly" was how the Big Bang took place.
Of course, first we have to DENY that anything like this could have happened BEFORE the Big Bang, simply due to the fact that THERE *WAS NO* "BEFORE"! "Before" indicates "TIME", and "time" was not created UNTIL the Big Bang!
On a side bar, did anybody catch that great film called "Catch 22"? <g>
happy days and... starry starry nights!
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P.S.: Thank *YOU* for reading!
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Jeff▲Relf - 27 Aug 2008 11:59 GMT Just because Our horizon extends back 13.7 giga years ago, covering a sphere 90 giga light years wide, with us at the center .. it most definitely does Not objectively define the begining of time.
BradGuth - 27 Aug 2008 12:51 GMT > >> Nothing has no place in our universe. Nothing means non existing,and > >> here we are. The universe could not rise up out of nothing. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > On a side bar, did anybody catch that great film called > "Catch 22"? <g> I'd say our latest BB cycle is worth upwards of 1e12 years of expansion.
By some reasonably peer accepted science has our universe diameter at 100 ~ 150 billion light years, and at 0.1'c' of getting such cosmic stuff to that kind of physical event horizon is going to take some time, of at least 500 billion years, if not more than 750 billion years.
Is it even technically possible to move physical matter/gas at 0.1'c' (30,000 km/s)?
Of other than gamma photons, what's the fastest recorded physical expansion velocity of a supernova?
Can a black hole implosion outperform a supernova or neutron star implosion that'll turn a cosmic night into day?
it seems the absolute maximum physical rate or potential velocity of a BB expansion is going to be limited as to 0.5'c', of which places our universe event horizon at the age of 100 to 150 billion years.
~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth
Painius - 27 Aug 2008 19:26 GMT >> >> Nothing has no place in our universe. Nothing means non existing,and >> >> here we are. The universe could not rise up out of nothing. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > ~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth Oh come now, Brad. Any cosmologist worth his salt would tell you that you are failing to take "relativistic" effects into consideration. Too bad if you don't know what that means, because every reference site i've seen thus far is way over a layman's head. Nobody seems to be able to explain it in terms i can relate to.
And of course, unlike Sagan, Asimov and a few others who would take their best shot at explaining it, those who respond in today's cosmology just tell me i'm a bit too ignorant to understand. Which says more about them than it does about me!
Try to find a cosmologist today who is just as good at giving plausible explanations as s/he is at cosmology. Damn hard to find these days, damn hard.
And it gets real funny when you start asking the "hard" questions, like why we should blindly accept that "c" is merely a constant of Nature, and not actually the result of space being comprised of a dense energy medium? The good ol' boys of cosmology just vanish somewhere out into the dark Cosmos! Void Space Paradigm kicks in, i suppose. ('If you don't think of space as "nothing", then you must be one ignorant idiot, and unworthy of my effort and time.') *Their* teleparadigmatic loss.
(teleparadigmatic?) <g>
happy days and... starry starry nights!
 Signature Indelibly yours, Paine Ellsworth
P.S.: Thank *YOU* for reading!
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oldcoot - 28 Aug 2008 16:39 GMT On Aug 27, 11:26 am, "Painius" <starswirlern...@maol.com> writted:
> And it gets real funny when you start asking the "hard" > questions, like why we should blindly accept that "c" is > merely a constant of Nature, and not actually the result > of space being comprised of an energy-dense medium? It's utterly amazing. The fact of a fixed propagation speed independant of the velocity of the emitter is direct, incontrovertable evidence and proof of a carrier medium. It's patently obvious and self- evident er, at least should be to anybody with two working brain cells. But yet, otherwise-normal, intelligent people with a full suite of working brain cells recite unquestioningly the 'space-is-Nothing' absurdity.
> The good ol' boys of cosmology just vanish somewhere > out into the dark Cosmos! Void Space Paradigm kicks [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > (teleparadigmatic?) <g> But then you've got the 'true Savants' of cosmology who say "But we're not saying space is 'nothing'. It's comprized of geometry and '4-D fields'." Or, "It's 'quantum foam' and/or 'strings'." Or, "it's 'space- time' and/or 'quintessence'." The whole strategy is to hew unwaveringly to the 'No medium' mandate while conceding the fact that space is most profoundly 'Something'. By whatever strategy, it comes out as space being the proverbial 'Something that is yet Nothing'.
The 'Nothing' is able to carry unlimited amplitudes of EM radiation at a fixed velocity. And it crushes massive stars down to a singularity while handily powering quasars on a sustained basis. That's quite a herculean 'Nothing'. :-)
Saul Levy - 27 Aug 2008 23:34 GMT Why didn't you add something about Sirius in there, BradBoi? lmfjao!
It's YOU who isn't discussing Sirius.
After all, Sirius and the Sun have no connection. Nothingness?
Saul Levy
>I'd say our latest BB cycle is worth upwards of 1e12 years of >expansion. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > ~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth oldcoot - 27 Aug 2008 13:13 GMT > BUT, BUT, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (HUP) > ALLOWS for these bubbles, these fluctuations in the > "CONTINUUM" ("nothing") - Oughta just call it the "Uncertainty Principle" and leave out the Heisenberg part. Ol' Werner never intended it for such grossly out-of- context, catch-all kludgery.
G=EMC^2 Glazier - 27 Aug 2008 14:00 GMT oc Right you are Heisenberg used uncertainty for micro QM realm. He told us that there are features of the universe like the position and velocity of a particle can not be known with complete precision. This becomes more true when distance and time scales get smaller and smaller. Taken this thinking into Planck time it is bringing out a picture that this microscopic realm is a roiling frenzy with violent areas of quantum fluctuations. What was fluctuating was Particles and fields jumping between all possible values. I read most of this,and agree with it. go figure bert
Painius - 28 Aug 2008 16:39 GMT >> BUT, BUT, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (HUP) >> ALLOWS for these bubbles, these fluctuations in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Heisenberg part. Ol' Werner never intended it for such grossly out-of- > context, catch-all kludgery. I agree, oc, but when chiding a cosmologist who has recently dubbed me "stupid" or some other such POS adjective, for me to return with "UP is God!" just does not have the same impact as "HUP is God!" <g>
Einstein takes the heat for all misuse of relativity, so Heisenberg also for all misuse of the UP. 'Tis only fair, non?
happy days and... starry starry nights!
 Signature Indelibly yours, Paine Ellsworth
P.S.: Thank *YOU* for reading!
P.P.S.: http://yummycake.secretsgolden.com
oldcoot - 28 Aug 2008 20:37 GMT > ...when chiding a cosmologist who has > recently dubbed me "stupid" or some other such POS [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Heisenberg also for all misuse of the UP. 'Tis only fair, > non? Yowser. And ditto the thoroughly out-of-context photonic theory as explaining all EM propagation through the 'Nothing'.
G=EMC^2 Glazier - 27 Aug 2008 13:46 GMT Painius There was a time before the big bang. We call this spacetime Planck Time It was just as real as Planck time is NOW bert
Painius - 28 Aug 2008 16:49 GMT > Painius There was a time before the big bang. We call this spacetime > Planck Time It was just as real as Planck time is NOW bert Uh-uh, Bert. By theoretical definition, time did not begin until the advent of the Big Bang. And Planck time is simply the time it takes a beam of light to travel a Planck length.
The significance of Planck time to the BB is that there is speculation that one Planck time after the Big Bang, the universe displayed properties equal to some of the other Planck units. (Some think that gravity must have separated first due to its homogeneity to the others. Some others think that the strong nuclear force is the most likely candidate due to its strength.)
One Planck time is believed to be just the smallest measurable unit of time.
happy days and... starry starry nights!
 Signature Indelibly yours, Paine Ellsworth
P.S.: Thank *YOU* for reading!
P.P.S.: http://yummycake.secretsgolden.com
G=EMC^2 Glazier - 28 Aug 2008 20:31 GMT Painius The BB came from inside out. Before the BB all that created all there is was locked in the fabric of micro Planck spacetime. End of story Bert
G=EMC^2 Glazier - 27 Aug 2008 13:41 GMT oc That is the reason to have an open mind and not to let imperial thinkers take you down a dark alley. If you can think nothing than you end up with hocus pocus bert
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