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Space Forum / Astronomy / July 2008What if (on Hydrogen lift)
What if you could make a hydrogen balloon so light it would go into space ? There is no free hydrogen or helium in the Earth;s atmosphere. Reason is Earth's gravity is not strong enough to hold it. Off they go to be bleed into space. Here is my idea In a plane at 55,000 feet up filled a very light but strong skinned balloon with hydrogen and release it. Would like to know this. Would it never fall back like free hydrogen? Do we have a material light enough to make the balloon.? Would the vacuum of space be a big problem on the balloon? Would the photons of the Sun push this large balloon faster and faster? Should the balloon be silver of black? This question just jumped in I once knew why Helium is more buoyant than it should be as compared to hydrogen,but I forgot the answer. Need you all to give me that answer Thanks in advance Bert > What if you could make a hydrogen balloon so light it would go into > space ? There is no free hydrogen or helium in the Earth;s atmosphere. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > hydrogen,but I forgot the answer. Need you all to give me that answer > Thanks in advance Bert When I was a kid, my uncle used to tell me that when helium balloons went too high they would burst. Was he right? Wouldn't a hydrogen balloon in space burst? Double-A >> What if you could make a hydrogen balloon so light it would go into >> space ? There is no free hydrogen or helium in the Earth;s atmosphere. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Double-A Yes. From what i've read, AA, there are three possibilities for either hydrogen or helium depending i think on the altitude reached in space... 1) the balloon itself will freeze and shatter, 2) the balloon will melt, or 3) the balloon will burst. happy days and... starry starry nights!  SignatureIndelibly yours, Paine Ellsworth P.S.: Thank YOU for reading! P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net OR What if you had a balloon full of neutrons would it go up even fast? > What if you could make a hydrogen balloon so light it would go into > space ? There is no free hydrogen or helium in the Earth;s atmosphere. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > hydrogen,but I forgot the answer. Need you all to give me that answer > Thanks in advance Bert > OR > What if you had a balloon full of neutrons would it go up even fast? If you could contain them. Double-A > > What if you could make a hydrogen balloon so light it would go into > > space ? There is no free hydrogen or helium in the Earth;s atmosphere. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > hydrogen,but I forgot the answer. Need you all to give me that answer > > Thanks in advance Bert >> OR >> What if you had a balloon full of neutrons would it go up even fast? > > If you could contain them. > > Double-A And they'd better hurry, too! With that free-neutron half-life of about 618 seconds, they'll all be gone in less than 15 minutes. OTOH, a balloon "full" of neutrons that are compacted, as in a neutron star, ain't goin' up anytime soon. Such neutron star material the size of a sugar cube weighs about 100 million tons! happy days and... starry starry nights! SignatureIndelibly yours, Paine Ellsworth P.S.: Thank YOU for reading! P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net Quoting Jim Logajan of Rec.Aviation.Piloting: “ There is no He␣2 compound ( well not normally ). So H␣2's Molecular Weight is 2, and He's is 4. Helium is twice as dense as H␣2 at the same temperature and pressure. That said, both gases provide nearly the same buoyancy .. H␣2 provides all of ~8 percent more buoyancy that He. That is because buoyancy depends on the differences of the densities, not their ratios. The densities at sea level are: Air: 1.29 kg / m^3 ( 1.29 - 1.29 ) / 1.29 * 100 = 0 percent He: .18 kg / m^3. ( 1.29 - .18 ) / 1.29 * 100 = 86 percent H2: .09 kg / m^3 ( 1.29 - .09 ) / 1.29 * 100 = 93 percent Vacuum: 0 kg / m^3 ( 1.29 - 0 ) / 1.29 * 100 = 100 percent Turns out .. a vacuum provides a little under 8 percent more buoyancy than H␣2. ”. -- news:Xns9A57D9F3E86F5JamesLLugojcom@216.168.3.30 http://Google.COM/groups?selm=Xns9A57D9F3E86F5JamesLLugojcom@216.168.3.30 By the way, one can use Google Groups to find useful facts, as I did, but you should search by date and never do a phrase search .. I use: “ http://GoogleGroups.COM/groups?q={searchTerms}&scoring=d& ”. > Quoting Jim Logajan of Rec.Aviation.Piloting: > “ There is no He␣2 compound ( well not normally ). [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > but you should search by date and never do a phrase search .. I use: > “http://GoogleGroups.COM/groups?q={searchTerms}&scoring=d& ”. But it doesn't demand as much energy in order to create and sustain a good enough vacuum, as it does to create and sustain a Helium displaced volume of the same buoyancy. In the middle of nowhere you can create and sustain a vacuum with next to nothing. - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth In article <cb43c756-d575-4d37-a15c-c81b9ae61f73@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > On Jul 6, 4:38 pm, JeffÅ£Relf <Jeff_R...@0.Invalid> wrote: > > Quoting Jim Logajan of Rec.Aviation.Piloting: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > In the middle of nowhere you can create and sustain a vacuum with next > to nothing. One advantage to using a really light gas instead of a vacuum is that the gas exerts outward pressure. This makes a container easier to build. SignatureTimberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com "When you post sewage, don't blame others for emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L. On Jul 6, 10:34 pm, Timberwoof <timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote: > In article > <cb43c756-d575-4d37-a15c-c81b9ae61...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > One advantage to using a really light gas instead of a vacuum is that > the gas exerts outward pressure. This makes a container easier to build. No doubt a balloon is a whole lot cheaper than any composite rigid airship as made for containing a good vacuum, however hauling along a method of creating He on the fly, so to speak, is going to have a fairly negative impact upon your payload. - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth In article <4fe3b28e-da1d-4c06-81ec-09e6d902c857@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, > > > In the middle of nowhere you can create and sustain a vacuum with next > > > to nothing. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > method of creating He on the fly, so to speak, is going to have a > fairly negative impact upon your payload. Why do you have to keep making helium? Hydrogen is lighter anyway... SignatureTimberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com "When you post sewage, don't blame others for emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L. On Jul 7, 6:34 pm, Timberwoof <timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote: > In article > <4fe3b28e-da1d-4c06-81ec-09e6d902c...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > "When you post sewage, don't blame others for > emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L. Making hydrogen on the fly, so to speak, is also a bit of a challenge. You've heard of leakage? Collecting hydrogen while cruising in ISM could prove ineffective. Our Selene/moon actually contains loads of hydrogen, as well as oxygen, sodium, aluminum, helium and 3He. Aluminium hydride AlH3 “Aluminium hydride may be a useful material for storing hydrogen in hydrogen-fueled vehicles. It contains up to 10% hydrogen by weight and can store up to 148g/L, twice the density of liquid H2.” - Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth As TimberWoof noted .. Consider the cost / weight of the container, not just the contents. Have you ever had Botan rice paper candy from Japan ? If so, you paid 1.60 USD for a tiny bit of sweet rice .. the container matters. True, BradBoi! lmfjao! You DO SUCK! Saul Levy >In the middle of nowhere you can create and sustain a vacuum with next >to nothing. > >- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth > What if you could make a hydrogen balloon so light it would go into > space ? It would make the Space Shuttle look rediculous. Further...what if a jet aircraft flew higher and higher, faster and faster...could it go fast enough to collect enough molecules of air to continue to give it lift...and jet propulsion... ...until it flew into space? Again, it would make the Space Shuttle look rediculous. |
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