Space Forum / Astronomy / June 2008

GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION (from website)

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North Pole ice may completely melt away this summer
Updated Fri. Jun. 27 2008 12:59 PM ET

For the first time in modern history, the North Pole may be iceless
this summer. Scientists say it's an even bet that sea ice in the
region will completely disappear in the next few months, perhaps as
soon as August.

Ice at the North Pole quickly and significantly melted away last year,
and that may be causing further melting this summer. Scientists say
the disappearance of long-term and thicker ice formed over the years
has disappeared. Now, most of the ice that's left is seasonal ice,
which melts away much more quickly during warm weather.

"This year there is a lot of young ice. There's always some, but this
year there's a lot," Andy Mahoney, a researcher at the University of
Colorado's National Snow and Ice Data Center, told CTV.ca.

Satellite observations indicate the ice remaining at the poles is
melting faster than last year's rate, which was already a record year
for Arctic ice loss. Scientists say whether or not the ice melts
completely, this year's northern melt is yet another example of the
impact that global warming is having on the planet's environment.

"There were some people who were saying last year was a rogue year. If
the same thing happens again a lot more people are going to be
persuaded about the consequences of global warming," Mahoney said.

"A lot of people think it's a very small change in temperature. This
shows that the change in sea ice is quite a dramatic consequence."

As the ice melts, interest in the region is intensifying. Canada and
other nations that border the Arctic -- including Russia and the U.S.
-- are scrambling to lay claims to vast parts of the area, which may
someday allow new resource development and shipping lanes.

"If the North Pole melts, then you don't have to worry about the
Northwest Passage. It will still be significant, but going on top of
the globe would be politically easier," Mahoney said.

A UN panel is supposed to decide on control of the Arctic by 2020.
Last year, Canada's Conservative government announced plans to acquire
up to eight Arctic patrol ships and to build an army base in Resolute
Bay and a naval station in Nanisivik.

Under the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, Arctic countries
have 10 years after ratification to prove their claims under the
largely uncharted polar ice pack. All countries with claims to the
Arctic have ratified the treaty, with the exception of the United
States.

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Comments are now closed for this story

Dan
Oh but how can that be? I mean, to listen to big business and the
global warming/climate change naysayers tell it, you'd think it was
cyclictic no? A natural phenomenom!

That's ok scientists, "I told you so" is definitely an apt response.

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Tanya
I don't think that ownership should be the major issue here, we should
be more concerned with the impact this will have on us and our planet
afterwards.

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Douglas
Interesting article... Are there any citations or references for it
other than, "We pulled off the news wire, so it MUST BE TRUE!!!"?

Without references, it's interesting for the political correctness
angle.

With references, it's interesting for the science.

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Al-BC
The sky is falling !!! the sky is falling!!!!!!! This overreaction to
"global warming" is ridiculous History has many examples of climate
change and there is nothing we can do about it. Climate change is a
natural occurance. According the International Climate Science
Coalition global climate has always changed and always will,
independent of the actions of humans, and that carbon dioxide (CO2) is
not a pollutant, but rather a necessity for all life."

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Paul Vancouver Island
Which group of policians is the most believeable when it comes to the
problems of the planet?

I'll give you a couple of clues as to who cares; it sure isn't John
Baird and Stephen Harper. They first said global warming was a
socialist plot, then finally agreed something is indeed happening, but
only after coming on board kicking and screaming when the public
demanded action; they still they have no action plan after all these
years in power. They seem to live in denial.

Stephane Dion put forth a green plan recently which is at least worthy
of debate. He obviously feels passionate about the issue. All he seems
to get from the PM though is scorn rather than constructive debate.

The NDP seem to have a difficult time explaining their position.

The Green Party has proposed something similar to the Liberals but
with higher targets.

The Bloc appears to recognize there is a problem but too caught up in
their political rhetoric for separation to care enough about the
planet.

The Prime Minister's solution always appear to be military in nature.
Bring the guns to the north, he says. What ever happened to mutual
cooperation? Sure policing is one thing but outright militarism in the
north - that is not what is needed.

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Alarmisms dangers
For those persons who believe the melting ice pack or the melting ice
in Greeland or even the warming or cooling of the planet are directly
caused and could be controlled be humans need to look further than the
last 40 years of history. In fact, you need to do research going back
100's of thousands to millions of years to get the picture, then you
would see that we and our society is inconsequential to the climate
and we could then devote our attention to real, predictable and
measureable environmental improvements.

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Jim

If the north pole ice is all gone, why haven't the sea coast cities of
New York and Los Angeles been flooded?

And if the ice is all gone and the planet hasn't imploded, what are
the real effects of global warming?

Access to the north's vast resources? Economic growth in the region?
Jobs? Opportunities?

Doesn't seem to be that bad.

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Pierre
So... did i miss the story about global flooding last year after all
that ice Melted.
Seems that we have told for years that if the ice melts, Toronto would
be under water.
Hmmm... maybe that would not be such a bad thing.

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Paul
On November 13th NASA released a landmark study that proves that the
melting of the polar ice has little to do with global warming. Keep in
mind that NASA is a major supporter of the Global Warming theory, yet
they have come out and made it clear that arctic ice melt is not a
product of global warming.

Check out "NASA Sees Arctic Ocean Circulation Do an About-Face" at the
JPL NASA homepage.

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Sean
Will all the westerners that are grasping at straws to justify their
oil-based incomes please read this article and stop deluding
yourselves into thinking climate change isn't happening?

I also find it ironic that nations are anxiously awaiting this
environmentally catostrophic event.. in order to get the oil under the
arctic. Should we laugh or cry at that?

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GW
Actully the increased open water should produce more cloud cover which
will block the suns radiation and cool things down again.

It's also kind of exciting to have this new resource open up.

At any rate, it's good to live in Canada. Bring on the warmer weather.

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Jim McB
If this happened weren't we all supposed to be under water? What
happened to that theory?

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Pirate John
Shiver me timbers, there be accesible oil up there :)

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Chris
Oh great...here comes the herd of chicken littles...

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Max
Roald Amundsen traversed the Northest Passage in 1903 didn't he?

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Bob
By August? What other month do you think the ice would be gone by?
Here's another news flash: the ice up there starts re-forming in
September. Get to know your country.

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Steve
So admittedly I slept through many a high school science class, but I
do seem to remember that when water freezes (to become ice), it
actually expands in volume and becomes less dense (which I guess is
why ice floats).

If that's true, then the reverse must also be true: as ice melts to
become water, it contracts and becomes more dense.

If that's the case, then how do all these coastal cities get flooded
out by the "melting polar icecaps"? And, to the other writer's point,
why haven't these cities been flooded with the North Pole cap melting?

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Sheep
SANTA! NOOOOOOOOO!

First GM, now the North Pole will have to close down and put the elves
out of work.

Seriously...aren't we getting tired of all the environmental
scaremongering? The planet is cyclical in it's weather patterns and
we'd be dense to think we can have that big of an effect in such a
short period of time.

We're not helping, but we're not harming as much as we think. Of
course, we could call for a cull of the human species.....I'm just
sayin'.....

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steve
The world is getting warmer; there is no question. We all have
thermometers and can track it. Polar ice melt is a key result. There
is one theory that says it is caused by carbon emissions, so the
politicians say we need higher taxes to stop making so much carbon
smoke. Another theory says it is natural; after all Greenland once had
farm fields with cows in them and grew corn and beans....finally there
is a whole group of astronomers who have been predicting this for
years. Sixty years ago, the sun got a lot hotter, and the sun spot
activity increased. I remember a teacher predicting in the late 60's
that if it continued we would have a big melt. More sun spot activity
means melting ice, deep down in the glaciers....I wonder which theory
is right, or if it is a combination of the above. Maybe the
politicians should tax sunlight too.

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Jerry Jarvela
Al-BC is right, there are many instances throughout history of
naturally occurring climate change. But to imply that simply because
it's happened in the past, therefore we need not worry about it, is
one of the most asinine things I've ever heard in my life. Climate
change pooh-poohers have the most embarassingly tiny capacity for
imagination. Their comments often scream "denial", they are so
frequently detatched from any sense of reality or insight.

So what if climate change has happened before? If that's your only
argument about why we shouldn't worry about it, then maybe you should
go back to highschool. Your critical thinking skills need serious
refurbishment. Any fool can see that these global extreme weather
patterns are getting worse. How much more can our infrastructure take,
as a global society? How many more crops can be destroyed? Food riots
ring a bell? We are ALREADY STRUGGLING to meet people's needs. Is it
too hard to imagine a scenario where extreme weather contributes to a
situation that forces us into another Great Depression?

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Keith
Rumour has it Santa's ditching his sleigh & reindeer in favour of a
magic Zodiac...

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DD
Al....you're just another example of the general public slurping the
Kool-aid distributed by the energy sector.

CO2 may be a necessity to life, but too much of anything can be
dangerous. In a natural cycle, the CO2 varies between 180 ppm (ice
age) and 300 ppm (peak of warming). This is the way it has been for
the last million years (PROVEN through ice core samples). The balance
likely has existed for tens of millions of years previous to that.

We are currently at 387 ppm of CO2 and increasing at a rate of almost
3 ppm PER YEAR and accelerating!!!!

Nature takes 1000 years to increase CO2 by 30 ppm. We've done that in
less than 20 years!!!! When the CO2 hits the 600-700 ppm area, the
warming becomes IRREVERSIBLE!!! At 900-1100 ppm, mass extinctions
occur.

It doesn't take a genius to see the problem here. Just an open mind
willing to be educated.

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george
Has anyone measured the earth's orbit around the sun or reported on
that recently...? Could be as simple as our planet's orbit closing in
on the sun for a period of time. Or its a really serious orbit change
and they want to keep our minds occupied with global warming so we
don't start thinking about other things like a deteriating earth
orbit..!

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Agent 86
I think I remember not long ago, hearing scientists warn, that if the
Artic polar ice cap were to melt, that many coastal cities around the
world, especially in the Northern Hemisphere, would have their cities
which lay on the coast like New York City, would be submersed in
water.

I think the scientists who had that theory, should go back and rethink
it.

However, this dosn't mean that the melting of the polar ice cap is
good, in fact it is bad, very bad.

We may not really care about it down here in Southern Canada, however
many of the Inuit people depend on it for their livelihood.

I think also the article says "For the First time in Modern History",
so we do know at one time, the Arctic was tropical, but would that be
a negative thing if green were to return?

Scientists are confusing the heck out of me.

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Didomyk
To Paul Vanc. Island
With your preoccupation with Canadian domestic politics you forgot
about many more important political players such as George Bush's (or
Barrack Obama's)visions of US 'destiny' or Vladimir Putin with his
nuclear subs planting Russian flags. Some interested European players
are unlikely to remain silent either. As to Dion's so-called 'plan',
its not a green plan but a pure tax grab which we don't need.

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DD
Jim...the sea levels don't rise when sea ice melts because it is
displacing the same volume of water!!! When ice on land melts
(Greenland, Antarctica, land based glaciers etc), then the sea levels
rises because it is ADDING water to the ocean. The Arctic is melting
faster because the ice sitting on the ocean isn't 3 miles thick like
it is on Greenland (though the icecaps there are melting at an
accelerating rate).

Sea ice not raising sea levels is an incredibly simple fact. It's
obvious that if naysayers can't even figure out something that is as
simple as pouring water into a glass with an ice cube then how on
Earth do they expect to understand the basic science behind Global
Warming.

Educate yourselves now because making such comments as you have only
prove that you don't have the first clue about the climate.

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FuturePM
Dont get your pants in too much of a ruffle people. These are just the
"birth pains". Global warming cannot be stopped.

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Trent
Paul in Vancouver - yes the Liberals now have a plan, but correct me
if I am wrong isn't this the same party that signed the Kyoto Accord
how many years ago and then did absolutely nothing about it. If memory
serves me correctly Dion had some involvement with the environment
when the Liberals were in power, but now that they aren't in power one
of his number one priorities is the environment. The change in both
are more than a bit shocking.

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DD
Steve....the sea ice is not what is raising the sea levels. It's the
water melting off the ice caps of Greenland and Antarctica as well as
what is coming from land based glaciers.

This ice is on land and is displacing NO water. There is enough ice on
land today to raise the sea 250 feet if it all melted (and remember,
for every foot of sea rise, the coastline recedes 150 feet!)

Greenland alone has enough ice to raise the sea levels by 20 meters.
We won't see that any day soon, but every inch is of concern.

Oh, and remember, Greenland wasn't called that because it was green.
It was named so in order to attract settlers to the barren rock.

Educate yourselves! Again, such comments only show how much you grasp
at straws to explain away global warming.

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Rob
Covering Canada, about 20,000 years ago, there was an ice sheet 2km
thick; they called it the ice-age. What happened is it melted and
everything we know as our natural surroundings today popped out in the
last 10,000 years. How could all of that incredible change have just
happened by itself? After all, we do know that things can only occur
on this planet when ignorant and thoughtless humans make them happen…
like when that giant asteroid hit the Yucatan peninsula, causing the
demise of the dinosaurs…

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Jaid
With our current world of "making our future" better will only be met
with the combination of destruction , arrogance and greed. Once these
three come together, businesses will start taking a beating because
the workers are more concerned for their lives as opposed to working
for the company. After that, the rich companies relocate to where
there's no disasters until such an event strikes there.

As much as we can all talk about cleaning things up, we'll have to
wait for those companies to chip in. No business means no money which
leads to record-losses.

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Shawn
Looks like some people here aren't too bright. The reason why the
ocean levels haven't increased is because this ice is already in the
ocean. It's like an ice cube melting in a glass, when it melts it
doesn't overflow the glass.

Antarctica, and Greenland have all the ice that most people are
worried about, because the ice is on land there.

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ARJAY
The reason why the melting of the polar ice will not raise the sea
level is because this ice is floating, and displaces as much water
whether it melts or not. The rise in sea levels will occur when the
antarctic ice sheet melts, or/and the Greenland ice sheet melts,
because those are land based, and will add to the overall amount of
water in the ocean. And no, increased cloud cover will not lower the
temperature, because sea ice reflects back 90% of the sunlight that
falls on it. Open ocean absorbs 90%. It's quite possible that when the
ice sheets melt, this will trigger more warming...

By the way, those who continue to insist that humans can't add to
global warming, what is it you're not getting here? Cyclical changes
in global temperatures occur over thousands of years, not decades. CO2
is directly correlated with temperature, and we have added about 120
parts per million since 1830, raising the overall CO2 from 260 to 380
ppm. Of course we can affect the climate- there is no reason why
adding CO2 won't affect it-- it's a matter of physics, folks. And we
can measure human impact by reading ice core data, which clearly shows
the planet warming in direct relation to our increased production of
CO2. Three of the warmest years on record have happened since 1998.
It's a smoking gun, no matter what the oil companies tell you!

And if you think climate change is a good idea, try telling that to
the people suffering from flooding in the States. Or from fires in
California. Or from drought in Africa, or the hurricane victims in New
Orleans or Miramar. Wake up. Environmentalists' predictions are coming
true right before your eyes, and you still deny climate change?

And by the way, who on earth is dumb enough to buy oil company
propaganda these days, given the current war in Iraq over oil?.

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Noah

...Look it's been said to death but some people like beating a dead
horse it seems, so hear (pun intended) it goes again:

There is a difference between sea ice and land ice. Simply put, sea
ice is like the ice in your glass of coke. As it melts, does your
glass overflow with liquid? NO! We won't get any significant flooding
from the melting of the North Pole. The melting of land ice in the
Antarctic and Greenland, hoever, will most certainly hurt the coastal
communities.

Nuff said?

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Luke
To everyone who thinks the coasts should be flooding. The ice that is
melting over the north pole is already displacing the ocean. In other
words the amount of ice floating in the ocean is reflected in todays
current coastline. If all the ice on Greenland (an island) and
Antarctica (a continent) were to melt then we would see rising ocean
levels.

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Anne
The north pole is not a continent (unlike antarctica) so the melting
of its ice does not cause the water to rise, just like ice cubes
melting in your glass will not cause it to spill over. It's basic
elementary school science...

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Kris
This is great news. I don't know exactly what solar or geological
phenomenon is causing global warming (but it sure as hell isn't CO2)
but whatever it is we need a little more. Then perhaps we can start
inhabiting the 90% of out country that is too frozen to grow food on.

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Lorne
I believe that there is cause for concern over this latest deveopment.
There are always going to be arguments for and against climate change.
However, human action is contributing to the changes we are seeing.
Those people that don't think so, should give their head a shake.
Watch the news: more severe storms, flooding, etc. and the list goes
on.

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Kris
For all those folks wondering why there hasn't been global flooding
due to the ice melting: north pole ice is floating, so when it melts
the sea level does not change since it is already displacing its
weight in water.

On the other hand if the South Pole ice melts, being supported by
land, and runs off into the oceans then we have a serious flooding
problem along every coast.

None of which is to say we can do anything about it either way except
move to higher ground. The idea that climate is a consequence of human
actions goes back to prehistoric sun-worship, but it's all just
superstition. The sun will do what the sun will do. Move to higher
ground. And don't vote for politicians who want to waste money trying
to placate the weather gods with sacrifices of animals or CO2
emissions. The weather gods could not care less.

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Al-BC
Sean. Yes climate change is happening. However, the climate has been
changing for hundreds of millions of years. It is a natural occurance.
What we can do about it is inconsequential.

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Paul Vancouver Island
Hi Trentt from Paul Vancouver Island.

Thanks for proving my point, instead of conservatives debating
Stephane Dion's Green Plan you prefer to scorn the man and his values.

He wasn't the leader at the time you write about, but as leader of the
Liberal Party now there is no doubt Mr, Dion is committed to finding a
Canadian solution which is similar to what is working in many European
countries.

At least its a comprehensive plan, so let's debate the plan not bath
mouth the positive initiative taken by the leader of the Opposition.

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DD
Kris, it's naysayers like yourself that make me want to laugh, if only
the issue were that funny. You comments, like too many here, are akin
to a cancer patient telling the oncologist that you feel fine and
don't need treatment.

You may feel fine now, breathing in 380ppm of CO2, but in time, like
cancer, you will feel it. It's time you start listening to to the real
scientists. More than 2000 in the field are in agreement - a feat
never seen before in any scientific field. The so-called "scientists"
that try to debunk global warming have been shown to be paid by the
energy sector...like Fred Singer. He was also paid by the tobacco
industry to tell you that second hand smoke wasn't harmful.

We all know how that turned out. And now you're willing to bet the
lives of 6 billion people on his personal greed?????

Open your mind. Educate yourselves. The evidence is there and is
OVERWHELMING...to those that WANT to see it.

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eric
People who think humans are not causing global warming are ignorant to
the facts. Also ignorant are the uneducated people commenting that sea
level has not risen so the north pole must not be melting. Wow is that
dumb!! Floating ice will never raise sea level, only land based ice!
People realy need some educating on this critical, planet threatening
issue.

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Mike B
Obviously we as a global society need to curb our polluting ways,
thats just common sense. But global warming at an extreme level? Here
on Vancouver Island we had more snow last winter than I can remember,
and this is the worst spring/start to summer I've ever seen!! Bring on
the "warming" and give me a 25 degree average!!

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David fm NS
As Paul pointed out, but everyone seems to have ignored him, the
melting of the Arctic Ice is being caused by a change in the
circulation pattern of the Arctic Ocean resulting in an increased
salinity level. This is an identified pattern and the research can be
seen at NASA's website. Feel free to continue ignoring this and
calling for the end of the world... google
"NASA Sees Arctic Ocean Circulation Do an About-Face"

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ARJAY
Kris- could you please explain the science behind your assertion that
CO2 isn't causing an increase in temperature? Do you understand why
scientists say it does? Visible light passes through the atmosphere
unimpeded. It's absorbed by the ground or water, then re-radiated as
infrared radiation (heat). But CO2 absorbs infrared, so the heat can't
escape. It's like putting a blanket on the earth. But all climate
change deniers can do is simply assert that CO2 doesn't do this. Why
not? What law of physics are you suggesting violates the properties of
CO2 as measured in the lab? If you can't tell us this, then you simply
have no idea what you're talking about. All the denial in the world
won't change the laws of physics.

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Macfisto
Some need to get their little heads out of their a... ! So no matter
how and what humans do "it's clyclical"? There is "nothing we can do
about it"? Come on! Let's see: if I drop 10000 nuclear bombs on earth
at the same time, will that make a difference? So why wouldn't other
chemical garbage be as bad on a longuer timeframe? Yeah humans can't
affect life on earth! Continue believing this ...go to sleep at night
thinking that all is well and you didn't do anything wrong!

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Mitch
Arjay.. acutally in the past there has been climtae change by several
degrees in only a decades time.. in the 1600's the big river that goes
through london freezed over( forgot its name) for the first time in
history.. and all of your examples of disasters hurting the earth all
of sudden being an example of climate change is bull... scientist are
saying that it will change 1 degree in like 50-100 years.. so things
happening now can not be attributed to what is happening now.. there
science is on a computer model..very few actual facts.. more and more
scientist come out each day saying they way overreacted and may be
wrong.. they change there predictions monthly and attribute every sing
thing that happens on earth to climate change- therefor losing
credibility-.. and if you read what these scientist say the ice in
antartica is actually getting thicker right now.. so why don't you
guys go cry about how the world is going die.. everything is going to
be wipped out... give me an accurate forecast for a year down the road
that is 100% accurate, never mind a forecast for tomorrow and maybe
i'll believe you when you try to predict the climate 100 years away is
going to be dramatically different then today- pretty tough to argue
that one

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Big Bear
Has anyone heard of the Milankovitch Cycles. These are the Earth's
orbital, tilt and wobble cycles and is the cause of all of Earth's
past global heating (ie global warming) and cooling (ie glacial)
patterns. Yes global warming is happening but it's not all our fault.

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perpetual
Jim asks: "If the north pole ice is all gone, why haven't the sea
coast cities of New York and Los Angeles been flooded?"

Because northpole ice is sea ice - it floats on water and when it
melts, it doesn't add any volume; just like a glass of water with ice
cubes.

If ice on land melts(e.g. Greenland or Antarctica) - watch out . . .

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Tim
BRING ON GLOBAL WARMING!!

This is great for Canada. Maybe all those northern islands will
finally get warm enough so we can turn millions of square miles into
arable farmland. Set up beach side resorts, etc. In 100 years this,
the 2nd largest country in the world, will finally be livable
everywhere and all our land will be producing something. Unlike the
70% of the country now being tundra. Its all good people!! Don't
worry, be happy!

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bd in sk
As a person of faith, I believe that God sustains the earth and all
that is in it. The end of time and life on earth as we know it is in
his hands. This brings a sense of peace no matter what the flavor of
the month scientist has to say. It is all going to end one day, best
be sure that you are ready for it.

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Mo
Is there still anyone saying global warming is a myth? Why do all
countries just worry about the money they'll earn from ice melting,
why isn't anyone saying hwat's gonna happen to the wild life and to
the rising sea levels after wards.

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AylmerBob
Jerry Jarvela
"... Climate change pooh-poohers have the most embarassingly tiny
capacity for imagination."

And Gore, Suzuki, and all the other chicken-littles out there have
only imagination - no facts, no truth - just an over-active
imagination.

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Jim Cripwell
One wonders why this story was promulgated at this time. The ice melt
this year has tracked practically the same as last year. There is
slightly more ice this year than last. However, last year, on Canada
Day, there was the largest single day's loss of ice that has been
recorded since records began in 1979. It was this event that started
last year's massive melt. We only have to wait a week or so to see if
this year is going to follow what happened last year. So why not wait
this week or so, and we will have a better idea of what might happen.

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Sceptic
Yawn!!! The earth has been in constant evolution FOREVER. So what if
humans do influence the earth's temperature? Mother nature will have a
way of naturally balcing things out. It's not in our control anyways.
Live life and enjoy it while you can. I'm sick of hearing about this
stuff.

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peace and love are groovy
I really think that human civilization should be rolled back to the
pristine times around 1200's before any evil fossil fuel using
corporations where ever even a dream. Life was way better for all
humans and especially for all our plant and animal friends. Humans
should not live into their 70's or 80's!! They should die in thier
30's, leaving more room for the animals to frolic. And 3 out 4 babies
are supposed to die before age 2!!! That is how angels are made! This
modern, oil-based civilization is evil and the world will be so much
the happier place without it.

Now everyone just hug and stop arguing with Al gore!!

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The 4 C's-ons? ...
Human hysteria about global warming (whether real, imagined, denied,
or whatever) is a bigger threat to all of us than global warming
itself (whether real, imagined, denied, or whatever).

We human beings need to (re?)learn how to be Cool, Calm, Collected, &
Composed. The 4 C's of CivilizatiON have NOthing to do with carbON.

To Extremists of _ALL_ sorts EVERYWHERE on planet Earth: please chill
out.

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Jim
DD

"Greenland alone has enough ice to raise the sea levels by 20 meters.
"

I just need some clarification here. If the earth is 70% water and 30%
land, how can the ice on Greenland alone raise sea levels 20 metres?
Greenland is less than 2% of the total earth land mass.

Thats like saying if Canada cuts CO2 emissions, which is 2% of the
world emissions, that global warming will be reversed.

Some people will say anything to scare the people for their own
political agenda.

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Dick Varley
It seems that there is a general consensus that the earth's climate is
warming. The cause of this is debatable between those suggesting it is
an historical natural phenomenon and those saying that current global
warming is a crisis due to man made factors. However it is the
speculators who are who are driving the issue under the guise of
improving the quality of life. These same speculators are the ones who
are driving up the price of oil.

Economic interests have created a drive for the redistribution of
wealth. By way of examples we just have to look at Kyoto which
basically boiled down to a redistribution of wealth from oil producing
countries to those without oil. We also just have to look at how
quickly specific financial interests were to establish an exchange for
trading among conformers and non-conformers. How does such an Exchange
actually impact the environment? It only shifts around the wealth.

In Canada only lip service is paid to economic sectors other than
petroleum, particularly the oil sands of Alberta. Political will is
driven by Ontario and Quebec and these provinces are suffering
economically so therefor, as has happened many times in the past, it
is once again time to rape the resource rich western provinces.

None of this action significantly contributes to rectifying the fact
that the climate of this earth is warming whether it is natural or man
made. But, a lot of people think it is a grand opportunity to make
some money.

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John
Oh, come on people, this is foolish, like arguing whether the bus you
are on is careening off a cliff because of gravity or bad driving.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that global warming is happening
and will, in all likelihood, have enormous and potentially disastrous
consequences.

Prudence is required. We need to be careful about what we do, and
until we have better information, let's not make things worse.

We should curtail unnecessary consumption, and avoid waste. We
shouldn't need a potential catastrophe to get us to do that! Let's
take a responsible attitude towards the stewardship of out precious
little planet and try to save as much of what is good for future
generations.

It is better for now to err on the side of caution. Be careful,
people.

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Kevin
But how do we know that having a North pole with perpetual ice is
normal? I mean, sure, it's been there since after the ice age, but
have people ever thought that maybe it wasnt there before the ice age,
and having it exist, although it's what we've always known, isn't the
norm?

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Adam
I noticed a couple comments asking the question why haven't the
coastal cities flooded with all the ice melt at the north pole.

First of all give your head a shake. If ice that is floating in water
melts, it isnt going to change the sea level because it is already in
the water.

Sea level will rise when the ice on land such as Greenland melts. And
that certainly is not a good thing, despite what the naysayers think.
C'mon now, take some time to think about your comments first.

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Greg in the Hammer
I believe the debate isn't really over global warming. Data show's us
that the earth has warm close to one degree Centigrade over the last
150 or so years.

The problem with the enviro-terrorist movements assertion that this
increase is man made and due to CO2 emissions is that well over half
of this increase in mean temperature occured before 1950. That is
directly from the lauded IPCCs own document. So....if temperature
increasede anyway despite the fact that CO2 emissions were a fraction
of what they were post 1950 how does one conclude that man has created
this latest shift in climate?

The IPCC has ingored natural factors like increased solar activity,
geo thermal fluctations in the earths core, etc. They have ignored
history which clearly shows us that there have been times when the
earth has been both much warmer than it is now and much
colder.....wait for it..... all without any human involvement.

Politicians have jumped on the band wagon because they want to get
elected. The enviro terrorists have been successful in getting people
to believe the world will end if we don't all stop driving our cars,
going to work, developing our economies etc etc. They show pictures of
baby Polar bears swimming in the ice floes and say they are going to
go extinct. News flash....Polar bears swim every day...thats what they
do

Recent releases from places like the German meterorlogical society
have in fact stated that we may be entering a cooling period.....?

In any event the world has much more pressing and potentially
dangerous things to worry about than global warming. Like an
increasingly ambitious and resource hungry China, an Iran determined
to build a nuclear arsenal, the continued brutality of a thug like
Mugabe.

But oh no....David Suzuki and his ilkj would have us think its more
important to replace all of our light bulbs.

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Greg in the Hammer
To the many quoting and referring to the vaunted IPCC panel of 2000
scientists who agree on global warming and its consequences for earth.
At least half of those people ARE NOT SCIENTISTS. They are bureaucrats
and politicians. Many of the remainder ARE NOT CLIMATOLOGISTS but work
in other fields. Of those at last count several hundred have
undertaken measures to have their names REMOVED from the IPCC
bibliography as they can no longer support the IPCCs assertions and
conclusions.

Its typical of the enviro terrorist movement to lash out at those who
challenge their conclusions and methodology and hypothesis. They call
them pawns of big energy and big business. What they fail to mention
is that global warming and the perpetuating of the belief that it is
man made has become a 7 billion dollar a year industry and many of the
people who have authored the IPCC documents have vested financial
interests at stake should this theory be disproved. Things like
academic tenure, research grant money, green technology research, etc
etc.

Those who cry foul should be careful about casting stones.
Al Gore has made over 100 million dollars since the release of "An
Inconvenient Load of Crap" How much of it has he given towards
alleviating the problem?

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Kris
For those who asked, I believe (manmade) CO2 has nothing to do with it
because historically global temperature has risen even when CO2 levels
have decreased or remained constant. There is no long-term correlation
between the two.

For the others who asked, yes I am a physicist, no I am not paid by
the energy sector, (or even by the tobacco industry, although I am not
sure what that has to do with anything...) and yes I do believe that
saying humans are causing the planet to warm is like saying humans are
causing the sun-god to get angry.

Get away from the superstition folks. Not all natural events are a
consequence of human misdeeds. If you're concerned then move to higher
ground and buy beachfront property around the Hudson Bay. And vote for
someone who will spend tax revenue intelligently rather than on
placating the weather gods by destroying Canadian industries. And
finally be glad that we live in a country that can only benefit from
warming. Warmth=good folks. Ice does not foster growth.