Space Forum / Astronomy / January 2008

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Bye
Sanny

Tell Boston, MA about Global Warming.

There are tens of thousands of books demanding the inevitability of
scientific socialism.  How well did that work out?  Was Aristotle's
science correct for its bloody adoption by the Church of Rome?  Was
Tommy Aquinas correct?  Which of Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan is
correct - and then convince a Buddhist.

(physical reality) - (empirical reality) = faith

Faith is destroyed if it works.  If you have faith you can only be
denied.  Test of faith!  

  1) That which supports corruption supports corruption.
  2) That which ignores corruption supports corruption.
  3) That which contradicts corruption supports corruptionn - test of
faith!
  4) Anybody who criticizes is thereby proven unqualified to comment
- and must be destroyed lest god(s) take offense.

[snip maunder]

Christ is coming back - just you wait.  It's only been 2000 years.

Idiot.

The Carribean's two years post-hurricane Katrina have been amonst the
quietest hurricane years in 100 years despite predictive strident
vociferation to the contrary.  Test of faith.

Sorry, but that just won't happen (any of it)!  There is NO global
warming.  The ice age is returning!

Climate changes.  Always has, always will.

Saul Levy

CO2 and other gases get distributed all over the globe very rapidly
from the winds.

If you release any CO2 in Texas you might as well be releasing it in
Australia as far as the global warming is concerned.

Antartica and Greenland aren't melting as fast at the Artic Ocean
because land separates the ice from warm ocean currents.

. . .

We just need to make clouds in the morning that rain out in the
evening leaving dry air at night.

It doesn't matter where we make the clouds, anyplace where it is
cheap.

Isn't that 10 C?

Everyone is probably a global warming denier to some extent.  No one
wants to hear THIS kind of bad news so we all lie to ourselves.

Kind of like the futures trader who wants a disaster big enough so he
can make a killing but not so big as to shut down the futures market.

AGW might shut down the market.

One theory on hurricanes in the [natural] greenhouse effect results in
lower entropy radiation from earth into space.  To make up for that we
would need to increase entropy on earth with constant 100 mph winds.
The increase in entropy, however, comes from mixing dry desert air
with moist air so we only need a few hurricanes a year to make up the
deficit.

As arid areas get larger as some GW models predict, then maybe even
fewer or weaker hurricanes would be necessary to increase entropy.

Water wars are a lot more scarey than any hurricane, however.

The worst thing of all is ethnic based geo wars like they have in
Africa.

Bret Cahill

Global Warming may not be accurate. It can be correct if we look at The
Earth alone. I have a theory about solar warming. The solar system is
warming. There were many reports on warming on Pluto and many planets in our
system at the same time. The reason of warming in our solar system is not
CO2.

Actually humanity faces much bigger problems than climate control. The
massive problem facing the world in the not so distant future will be
that of peak oil as we are rapidly running out of ALL fossil fuels as
well as uranium, food and water.

And in the long run, global warming may be good for us. You see, we
wont have much fuel to heat our homes, so at least we wont freeze to
death as much in a warmer climate.

Have you ever thought about how much your homes are dependent on
natural gas for cooking, heating and hot water? Well, we will run out
of natural gas in the next few decades, just after have we depleted
our crude supplies.

http://www.amazon.com/High-Noon-Natural-Gas-Energy/dp/1931498539

I'm sorry for the polar bears and the penguins, but this is how
mankind operates by living outside of natures intended means. All our
actions have consequences, and many of our actions produce
consequences that end up destroying peace. They destroy our peace as
well as the inner peace of others.

Why don't we do anything about global warming...because we can't.

To do anything substantive would cause a financial and population
backlash of unimaginable proportions.

And what we could do, even with drastic measures, would not cure
global warming but only slow things down.

In addition, there is no one global entity to control all the green
house gas emitters. China and India (CHINDIA) plan on adding more
dirty coal burning electric plants to feed their burgeoning
economies.

Yes, we have Kyoto, but...the largest polluters of green house gasses
have exempted themselves from it.

"As of June 2007, a total of 172 countries and other governmental
entities have ratified the agreement (representing over 61.6% of
emissions from Annex I countries). Notable exceptions include the
United States and Australia. Other countries, like CHINDIA, which have
ratified the protocol, are not required to reduce carbon emissions
under the present agreement."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

We can't start wars over green house gas like we do oil...even then we
would have to go to war right here at home before we point fingers at
other countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3143798.stm

As far as foreign wars, many of these newly rich nations seem to be in
a war of sorts to see who can build the biggest and the tallest. Well,
the bigger the building is the more energy it takes to power it and
the more green house gas is given off to pay for the ego behind the
monstrosity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_the_wor
ld#Tallest_buildings

Thoreau once said when people invited him to dinner they 'put their
pride' in how fancy and expensive a meal they could make. Whereas he
put his pride in how simple and inexpensive a meal he could make.

Where do we put our pride?

We surely don't put it in living within our means and in balance with
nature.

In the US, 93.2% of our electric comes from non renewable, greenhouse
gas producing methods.

If we are looking to hydroelectric and renewable sources, 4.46% of our
electric comes from hydroelectric and 2.34% comes from renewable
energy production.

Out of this 2.34% of renewable sources, an undisclosed portion still
contributes to global warming despite its prestige of being a
'renewable energy source' as it involves the burning of wood, black
liquor, wood waste, municipal solid waste, landfill gas, sludge waste,
tires, agriculture byproducts and biomass.

Only a fraction of the 2.34% of renewable electric energy that is
produced comes from geothermal, solar thermal, photovoltaic energy,
and wind.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epates.html

Lets say we decided to turn off the coal fired plants for 25% of a 24
hour day to save some fossil fuel.

Saving 25% seems to be a modest proposal.

So they shut the coal fired plants down for 6 hours during peak
daytime operation.

And lets say we don't care that all the frozen food in the markets
will thaw out and the refrigerated foods will spoil.

And lets say the workforce will sacrifice their jobs for the 6 hours
every day while the electric is shut off.

And we put up with the gridlock and accidents from not having traffic
lights and the doctors and hospitals all shut down.

And people just hold their noses over the backed up sewage that cannot
be processed when the electric is off.

The real problem with trying to implement even a modest 25% fossil
fuel saving plan is this - it just can't be done.

Coal fired plants are not of the nature to be turned off and turned on
with the flip of a switch.

If a coal fired plant was turned off and completely cooled down it
would take many days to bring it back online. If a coal powered plant
was shut down even for 6 hours, it would take between 12 hours to
bring it back to operational capacity.

In addition, when the plant is started back up, all the fossil fuel
that is consumed in the startup does not make electric, it just goes
to bring things back up to speed. And during startup, the plant
operates at lower temperature and produces more pollution at those
lower temperatures. And if that is not enough, startups of that
magnitude send out power surges that destroy transformers and cause
grid problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_plant

Well, if saving 25% from the coal plants does not seem feasible, what
about going to the American public?

Can we cut back on GNP by 25%?

Cut back on utility use at home by 25%

Cut back on driving by 25%?

Cut back on consumption whether it be food or hard goods by 25%?

Cut back on interstate trucking by 25%?

And cut back in all related areas that use energy by 25%?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

The 'public' gets their underpants in a bind when the GNP declines at
all...even when it is still in the positive numbers.

They start a panic in the stock market when the GNP is +1%, so how can
it survive a -25% GNP drop?.

And as for cutting back on our demands...well it goes against the
American dream.

And even if America decided to cut back 25%, that is only a drop in
the bucket, as the rest of the world is ever increasing their demands
on the environment and would soon make up for such a small decrease in
greenhouse gas and fossil fuel depletion.

Are you starting to see the folly of thinking mankind can stop global
warming, when mankind is built on such a ludicrous foundation?

There is no 'simple or easy answer' to this issue nor is there even a
'not so simple and hard answer' to our dilemma.

The world is in a death spiral. It is just how we have built our world
over the years.

It would be one thing if we all reverted back to rural living, burning
trees for fuel and housing and living within our comfortable means
allotted to us by nature, as our ancestors did back in the day. But
seven billion people can't burn the trees!

The World Coal Institute estimates world energy reserves as follows:

"At current production levels coal will be available for at least the
next 155 years compared to 41 years for oil and 65 years for
gas." (See footnote #1)

http://www.worldcoal.org/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=21

Even though this was written a few years ago and it is based on
'current production and consumption' it gives the same haunting
message to the generations to come.

We may not see the end of our free flowing energy as we know it - but
some of our descendants will in the not so distant future. This is the
legacy they will inherit from us.

Mankind is just a little 'too smart' for his environment and learned
to live beyond natures intended means. But mankind does not seem
'smart enough' to fix the mess that it has created.

Yes, mankind has done great things over their reign on earth, but we
must always remember nature does not bow to us..in the end we all bow
to nature.

Our population has grown to levels where it has passed the point of no
return for supporting a sustainable human population as we know it
today.

And leading the pack of over consumers is the USA.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption

Consumption is ingrained in us and we know no other way.

And even if we wished to amend our ways, how could all our retirement
funds take the hit? America is built on borrowed money, spending and
consumerism.

And what does all that consumerism lead to?

It leads to the mess we are in now and the bigger mess the world will
be in once CHINDIA picks up momentum to copycat the envious lifestyle
that they have held in high esteem as the 'American Dream'

The worlds population is out of control.

The problem is not with the earth not having enough land for all its
people - the problem is with earth providing ad infinitum for all the
needs the people crave.

Our planet is overpopulated in terms of what the planet can
sustainably support. The more people born, the more heat is produced
from their life and all their cravings, As such, the warmer and more
polluted the earth gets and the more energy they all use and the
earths resources are depleted.

While I cannot deny the wisdom of promoting life as many religions
profess and personal freedom the USA is built on, sometime we must
accept the lesser of two evils if promoting life turns into being more
destructive to life than 'not promoting' it.

It then becomes a decision whether to choose between the 'greater good
for the whole' or the 'greater personal right for the individual'...
and the whole be damned. (Whole meaning entire human population of our
planet.)

For instance, on a farm if the plants are planted packed like sardines
(or 'packed like sushi' as they say in Japan) the plants do not
flourish.

In nature, trees that are overcrowded weed themselves out by nature's
decree. But if man forced the trees to not weed out and forces
crowding the trees may die from disease due to a forced and
unsustainable growth plan.

So it goes with how our planet is evolving...a sad but exactly true
statement.

Fueling the problem of consumption is the games the Federal and World
banks play with interest rates. They manage the economies in ways to
fuel consumption and mask the real trend. Witness the recent cries for
Federal bankers to lower interest rates...so the stock market can go
up...fueled by spending of the consumer.

It is drug habit that Greenspan got us hooked on and we just can't get
away from.

Our economy is not based on sustainable health - it is based low
interest credit to encourage compulsive spending, debt and living a
life of constant consumption with a 'disposable mentality' when it
comes to durable goods.

Lets look at CHINDIA, two up and coming giants. Are they built on the
compulsive spending habits of their people to foster a healthy
economy? No, they are built on producing products and services and
selling them to the USA and the world. Sure, their home consumption is
a factor, but it is not the main factor as it is with the USA. The US
GDP is based 70% on consumer spending.

The USA is built on consumer consumption to artificially fuel our
economy to make our retirement funds only go up. All this worldwide
consumption contributes to more and more global warming and the
depletion of our natural resources. Then the governments juggle the
numbers to make the inflation figures seem artificially low, so
everyone's retirement portfolio will make them happy so they will
continue to buy and consume more...and on it goes....IT IS ALL WE
KNOW

You see, no other animal destroys its environment except mankind. We
are the only ones that do not accept and live within our comfortable
means. We not only debt with our finances we debt with our
environment. What we are borrowing in terms of petroleum, coal and
natural gas takes millions of years for nature to make. Yet we are
using it all up in just a couple hundred years...we can never pay it
back.

The scary thing is CHINDIA is just starting to bloom with their
demands for fossil fuels We haven't seen anything yet with the
meteoric rise of gas, energy and over consumption.

In China the per capita car ownership rate is 40 car owners per 1000
persons. In India it is much lower, running 8 cars per 1000 people. As
these two giants evolve more of their population will want cars...in
India, they are making a $2500 car as well.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/05/percapita_car_o.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20394364/

But what can one say about the problem unless people just cut back
reproducing?

Everyone has a desire to have some sex stimulation and through that
stimulation comes more and more people. And everyone has a desire to
keep warm when it is cold or to keep cool in the heat or move about
the earth and wear clothes. And it is from all those desires that
global warming fueled through the expenditure of fossil fuels takes
place.

But the sad reality is even if people cut back having babies, we are
only delaying the inevitable and that alone will not fix the problem.
It can be compared to men stuck underwater in a crippled submarine.
The more they move around, the quicker they run out of air and die.
The less they move, the longer they can live...but the end result is
the same.

Now maybe some genius will come up with a replacement for petroleum,
natural gas and coal to meet all out needs. But it is unrealistic to
think we can grow enough corn to fuel all the trucks, airlines, cargo
ships, cars and other needs we humans have in addition run all the
power plants and factories, heat and cool our homes.

From this list we can see that we are still massively depend on crude
for our non sustainable lifestyle even if the world stopped burning
fossil fuels this instant. There is no replacement for crude...crude
is in the details of our life.

A partial list of products made from Petroleum. One 42-gallon barrel
of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used
for petrochemical needs to make things like:

     Solvents Diesel Motor Oil Bearing Grease
     Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football Cleats
     Upholstery Sweaters Boats Insecticides
     Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures
     Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes
     Cassettes Dishwasher Tool Boxes Shoe Polish
     Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape
     CD Player Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline
     Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap
     Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes
     Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Footballs
     Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant
     Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings
     Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician's Tape
     Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint
     Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters
     Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring
     Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick
     Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber
     Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin
     Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice
     Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint
     Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards
     Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains
     Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses
     Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses
     Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs
     Combs CD's Paint Brushes Detergents
     Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents
     Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones
     Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras
     Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages
     Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers
     Cold cream Movie film Soft Contact lenses Drinking Cups
     Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia
     Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste Gasoline

(net source)

...and even nuclear power is dependent on the mining of uranium and
has limits as to how long the supply will last.

http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/uranium.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4287300/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

What is in store for us in the not so distant future?

Without energy our country is open for takeover ... no jets...no
tanks...no transport on the ground or in the air. Luckily we will
still have nuclear powered submarines and aircraft carriers as long as
the uranium holds out. But the jets on the flattop all use jet fuel.
All the supplies for those subs and carriers petroleum dependent. So
long before the crude dries up the government must 'secure a supply'
of crude for it own needs.

Other countries such as Russia that have a good supply of crude may
not be so kind to keep on selling it to us and we need a 'local and
continual' source somewhat within our borders. You see, jet fuel as
well as gasoline deteriorates and cannot be stored indefinitely. So we
must always be producing some of it to replace the stale stuff to
supply the military. But, that's why we elect politicians to deal with
these troubles

As our world changes and our drug supply dries up, things will only
get worse. And the bigger the city - the bigger the hellhole it will
become. And this time RIGHT NOW is the defining moment as to whether
most of our population will die off or not in the crisis that awaits
us in the not so distant future.

When it comes to the future, I see people living in miniature houses
(the lucky ones that survive that is, after all most of the population
died off long ago from starvation, freezing to death or from the
riots) with roofs shingled completely with solar material.

They drive up to their house on an electric scooter that is recharged
from their solar roof. If they are higher up the totem pole they may
have a solar golf cart. But in either case, luck must still be on
their side for without the sun shinning to charge it, their
transportation sits idle. (Not much lead left to build big
batteries...China gobbled it all up, so we have to make due with very
small storage cells.)

They work for the government and in exchange the government feeds and
clothes them from their warehouses. You see, we have become a sort of
'Communist Democracy' for without that bold leap and a desire 'to put
our country first' Russia or China would have stepped in to acquire
some new real estate.

The warehouses are fed from government owned coal fired steam
locomotives. Diesel dried up long ago, so it was either wood or coal
to fuel the trains. It did not take our government long to realize
this. the electric plants only had to shut down sporadically for 8
months so until they could build the first of a large fleet of steam
locomotives.

This was a 'slight' government oversight. They never figured that the
coal fired power plants were fed with 'diesel powered' locomotives.
They kept concentrated on the prediction that we had a hundred of
years of coal left, but were oblivious as to how that coal is
delivered to the power plant. But all these changes have some bright
spots in them. As the coal producers were able to hire many more
workers to manually mine coal, as the diesel powered mining equipment
sit idle from lack of diesel fuel.

Now some of the states or bigger cities had the foresight to build one
or two electric rail trolleys for public transport. Your only problem
is getting to the main road to catch the trolley and then it is a
straight ride to the government warehouse.

What happened to Private industry & Money?

Money is nothing more than stored energy. But since the crude dried
up, the 'real energy' behind the money has vanished...and so did
private industry. What about the coal mines...all government owned. If
you want to eat you work..it is that simple.

So, what is money good for nowadays...to wipe your a.s?

Not really, the government supplied toilet paper works better than
that.

Martha Stewart syndrome died out long ago, now people are happy to eat
rice and beans and get a clean glass of water to drink.

After all, the government can't afford to fool around decorating
everyone's house, they can hardly produce enough food to keep a
fraction of the population alive. Yes, tractors, reapers and farming
is very crude intensive...but no one bothered to think about that as
they continued to squander the worlds petroleum resources.

On a positive note, since most of the population died off from
'natural causes', the government does not have to worry about passing
'population control' any longer. They tried to get that universally
opposed program passed for many years, but the public just would not
go for it...too UN-American...goes against our religious
upbringings...too controversial and all of the rest. We can still hear
the cries now...Communist!...Atheist!...Baby
Killer....Hitler....Impeach the President!!!!

Such objections are only subjective and prejudicial states of mind.
As such, all problems related to 'controversial subjects' such as this
are problems created in the mind...the mind of ego based, prejudicial
man. If you find yourself being distracted with such thoughts as 'too
controversial' just ask yourself if the proposed controversy is true,
false or I don't know?

This introspective method may help you become truth based and not ego
based. You will have made a 'choice divorced of need'...you wont 'need
your ego' to support the truth...the truth will be able to stand on
its own.

But nature helped us humans out with that hard decision - for nature
does not discriminate nor find the truth too controversial or
provocative or opinionated to be true. And in the end, nature settled
the dispute of population control with even handed justice of 75% of
our population dying off, ever reminding us all that nature does not
bow to man...it is always man that bows to nature.

But, people hold no grudges against nature and are more in harmony
with nature and enjoy a simpler life nowadays. People pick pine
needles from trees to make their tea, since there is no jet fuel to
import any Darjeeling tea or coffee.  Once in a while people are able
to kill a bird, a rat or cat to supplement their diet - so we still
can find a place of gratitude in our life for such gifts.

Of course one problem still haunts the world?

The last remaining buckets of crude will soon be gone and they have
still not found out how to make the tires for the solar powered golf
carts and scooters without that critical ingredient of crude oil?

http://www.coaleducation.org/lessons/twe/mcoal.htm

Postscript

"Who Killed the Electric Car?"

This documentary not only discuses electric vehicle in depth, but
cover hydrogen fuel cells, ethanol, methanol and biodiesel. A truly
outstanding educational tool for anyone interested in this subject.

Get the DVD from your library today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

Also See:

http://www.amazon.com/Out-Gas-End-Age-Oil/dp/0393058573

http://www.amazon.com/Hubberts-Peak-Impending-World-Shortage/dp/0691116253

http://www.lastoilshock.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Resource-Wars-Landscape-Conflict-Introduction/dp/0805055762

http://www.amazon.com/Long-Emergency-Converging-Catastrophes-Twenty-First/dp/087
1138883

http://dieoff.org/

http://www.crudeawakening.org/

Take care,

V (Male)

Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
Futurist
Urban Homesteader