Space Forum / Astronomy / August 2007

On Aug 23, 8:51 am, chambers...@hotmail.com wrote:

Do not confuse the object locator MOUNT with the Intelliscope
ENCODERS.

For the object locator to work, it must know how far -- how many
degrees -- the scope is moving in altitude and azimuth.  The
Intelliscope has the encoders built into the base and has a jack where
you plug in the handheld object locator.

The "classic Dob," or the one without the Intelliscope function, does
not have these encoders AND YOU CANNOT ADD THE ENCODERS LATER.

I have two Orion Dobs -- XT-12 with Intelliscope and handheld object
locator and XT-8 classic Dob, without the Intelliscope.  I rarely use
the Intelliscope locator but sometimes I just can't find what I'm
looking for by starhopping and for those instances the Intelliscope is
indispensable.

I STRONGLY RECOMMEND you get the Intelliscope -- if it's beyond your
budget to get the handheld locator, don't get it now but if you get
the "classic Dob" you can't add the Intelliscope.

The XT-12 is one BIG sucker.  I have one and love it but I must use a
two-wheel handcart to move it.  I'm 63 years old, 6'-1", 180, and
bench press 185 pounds -- and I don't even try to carry the XT-12.  If
you are in decent condition you can pick up the XT-10 and carry it;
the XT-8, -6, and -4.5 are no problem to haul around.

In sci.astro.amateur chambersdon@hotmail.com wrote:

Hello, there, and looking at an Orion catalogue, I get the idea that there
are three options:

(1) The XT Classic Dobs, without any IntelliScope support.

(2) The IntelliScope Dobs WITHOUT Object Locator, but with "upward
   compatibility to add it later.

(3) The IntelliScope Dobs WITH Object Locator already included.

That's what I understand from the catalogue also. Maybe I could be most
helpful by sharing my own experience with what is evidently a close "cousin"
of the XT8, the Sky-Watcher 200mm f/6 Dob; if I'm correct, both have optics
made by Synta, with the XT8 a tad larger in aperture (8" or 203mm).

Really I'd say that there are two basic questions you might ask, both of
which you need to answer for yourself.

----------------------------------
I. What size seems to fit for you?
----------------------------------

First, quite apart from the IntelliScope question, what aperture feels
"just right" for you? Indeed, "aperture rules" -- but for that reign to
be a happy and productive one, you need to be able to set up, use, and
store the telescope comfortably, and for most people also to move it
back and forth, whether between your backyard and where you store it,
or possibly from your home to some darker-sky site and back.

Remember the rule: "That scope is best which is most used." This rule
can set a practical limit quite apart from budget, although it can also
serve as a healthy antidote to what is called "aperture fever," the
feeling that "just a bit larger scope" would make you _really_ content.
Of course, you want a scope large enough to meet your needs and give you
some growing room -- but also not too large to use, and use often and
conveniently!

That's why I might say, "Choose a scope as large as you can afford and
comfortably manage."

If you can handle the greater weight of an XT10 by comparison to an XT8,
and can afford it, then I'd say go for the XT10. If for some reason the
XT8 is about as large as you can comfortably handle, then choose that and
use it in good health.

From what you've written of your backyard observing, I might guess that
you're possibly in a suburban setting -- better than my urban apartment
with its light polluted skies, at least to a degree, if I'm guessing
right. Can you see the Milky Way with your naked eyes -- barely, more
distinctly, or well? This is one test to get a general idea of the kind
of light pollution (or its absence) that you're dealing with.

If you're planning to observe pretty much from your backyard, then ask
if you could comfortably manage getting the XT10 to your backyard and
back to wherever you'd store it. If it would be comfortable, then that
might be your choice. If the lighter XT8 would be much more practical,
then that might be the "most used" scope, and thus for you the "best."

If you're interested in dark sky sites -- and attending a star party
or two might give you more of an idea of what this is all about -- then
you would also want to consider how the XT10 might fit into your vehicle,
or that of a friend giving you and your scope a ride to such a site.
Again, if it fits, then it looks like the XT10 could be best -- if the
XT8 would be much more manageable, then that might be better in practice.

It can also be a question of frequency. If you'd be attending one or two
dark-sky star parties a year, and otherwise staying pretty focusing on
backyard observing, then a scope you could easily set up in your backyard
but not so easily transport might not be a problem -- at star parties,
you could also have fun just asking permission to observe through other
people's scopes. If you want to go out more often, or think that you
might after trying a dark-sky star party or two, then transportability
would become a relevant factor.

To sum up, weight, size, and portability as well as your budget can set
limits on what would be the largest _practical_ aperture for you. This
can be a delicate balance. Weigh it carefully.

If you decide that the basic XT10 would be practical and affordable for
you, then we come to the next step.

----------------------------------------------
2. Classic starhopping -- is it right for you?
----------------------------------------------

Please let me admit my own bias: I love classic starhopping, and
wouldn't hesitate to go for a "Classic" XT with the optimal aperture
(as discussed above) rather than a smaller-aperture scope with some
kind of object locator.

However, this is your choice, not mine. One thing I might suggest is
trying a bit of starhopping with your spotting scope, or possibly also
a pair of binoculars (I have 7X50). There are lots of good sites on
the Web, as well as some free and very good star atlases you can download
and view on screen or print out.

If you like starhopping, then you may find that a classic Dob would nicely
meet your needs. Then you can simply go for whatever fits your budget and
your idea of the "best aperture" for you -- the XT8, or XT10, or whatever.

Let me try to present two main concluding points in balance:

    (1) Especially if you're interested in observing deep sky objects
        (DSO's) beyond our solar system such as star clusters, nebulae,
        and galaxies, then a lot of the process isn't simply locating
        the object, but _learning new ways to see_ what it's easy to
        overlook even when that object is actually right there in the
        eyepiece field! This means skills like using averted vision,
        and getting experience in recognizing things that may be near
        the limits of visibility with whatever scope you're using.

    (2) Some people do find object locators useful in making the
        initial "learning curve" a bit less steep, or in dealing
        with light-polluted environments where conventional
        starhopping is more difficult because the bright sky
        interferes with easy recognition of navigational
        landmarks. Others develop techniques to make starhopping
        more successful even with bad light pollution, like doing
        most of the navigation with binoculars or a finder rather
        the naked idea.

Especially if your light pollution is moderate, one solution that
might give you some of "the best of both worlds" would be a finder
called a Telrad. This projects circles that can be used with special
charts to locate a desired DSO quite precisely -- as long as the
sky is dark enough to let you see the guide stars with your naked eye.
Some people here really like this option, at any rate.

Because this is a topic that can often inspire a lot of passion
on various sides, I want to try to present it calmly and with a
recognition that different people may have different solutions.

Most appreciatively,

Margo Schulter
mschulter@calweb.com
Lat. 38.566  Long. -121.430

Before you buy any scope, you should attend some of your local club's events
and observe with and through examples of the various sizes and designs. Some
folks love SCTs, others dobs, others high-end refractors, others big binos,
etc. Some folks are willing to haul out a big scope, and for others a small
scope gets them out much more often. Only you can decide what is best for
you, and fortunately there are astro clubs all over the place with members
who are more than happy to let you try out their setups.

Dennis

<<snippage>>.

As a one-time buyer of a used telescope the downsides are pretty much like
anything else, which for me comes down to how important a warranty is.  IOW,
do the electronic components work, how worn are they (this applies to goto
AND telescopes with any kind of electrically powered drive), are the
mechanical components in a state of good repair, usability?  If these two
are fine, then you are probably going to do fine.  I've gotten quite a bit
of use out of the used Meade refractor on a CG-4 mount that I bought three
years ago.  I also spent around $100 on immediate upgrades, such as a polar
finderscope and a 9x50 finder.  Other the past three years I've added a
Telrad and various eyepieces and filters.  Out of all this the only thing
that I consider absolutely necessary was the 9x50 finderscope.