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Space Forum / Astronomy / December 2005Newbie - Meade DS-2130ATS-LNT or ETX-80BB
Hello, I'm sorry if this posting is not appropriate in this group - I'm a newbie. I'm about to buy my first Telescope. I hope to get my kid interested in time too. I do not want to get put off with the initial complexities. So, I'm definitely interested in a computerised Auto-find and Auto-Aligning scope to start with. My goal is to get to photograph heavenly bodies since photography is my real hubby and I've a decent Digital SLR. My Price range is between $300 to $500. >From what I've seen briefly, I'm somewhere between a: DS-2130ATS-LNT($399) details: http://www.meade.com/starterscopes/ds_series.html Or Meade ETX-80BB($299) details: http://shopping.discovery.com/product-59071.html I like the aperture size on the DS, but I like what I read about the Maksutov-Cassegrain design of the ETX-80BB. Am I looking at the best product for my criteria above? If so, which one would you advise? Many thanks in advance. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Am I looking at the best product for my criteria above? > If so, which one would you advise? Looking at your criteria, in particular using a DSLR for astrophotography, I would question whether either scope meets your needs as well as it could. From the pictures, both are Alt-Az mount only -- not supporting equatorial/polar mounting. An ETX-90EC may be a better choice for you. More expensive, likely, but you can do an on-line search and find better prices for the ones above, too. It supports use in both Alt-Az and polar/equatorial mounting configurations and is very good optically. To find out more about all such Meade ETX and DS scopes, be sure to visit Mike Weasner's site: http://www.weasner.com/etx/menu.html There you will find info on prices, and most of the scopes in the ETX and DS lines, as well discussions of astrophotography and links to Meade sites (e.g, for updating the Autostar hand controller). Meade manuals can be found here: http://www.meade.com/manuals/index.html Phil > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > photograph heavenly bodies since photography is my real hubby and > I've a decent Digital SLR. My Price range is between $300 to $500. By the way, if I ignore about 2/3 of what you say above, I would advise you to start with a Dobsonian. It is not good for astrophotography -- but serious astrophotography will require a serious investment. It won't auto-find nor auto-align the way an ETX/DS will -- but often those features in a Go-To scope can be frustrating and time consuming. And you can buy Dobs (the Orion Intelliscope line) which will help you find things (but in a "push-to" vs. "go-to" mode). A Dobsonian is quick to set up and put away and the most bang for the buck in terms of aperture per dollar. To "get your kid interested" it is likely the best way to go, since it is a sort of "point and shoot" scope which he will be able to use on his own, depending on his age and the size of the scope. And a Dob is so simple to use that it will seldom frustrate. Many recommend an 8" Dobsonian as the best way to start. Since I mentioned Orion above (I believe they are the only ones implementing the Intellescope concept today), here is their website: http://www.telescope.com/ They have Dobs with and without the Intelliscope feature. Phil I don't think the ETX-80 is a Maksutov-Cassegrain design. It should just be a slightly larger version of the ETX-70AT, a short-focal length refractor. > I don't think the ETX-80 is a Maksutov-Cassegrain design. It should > just be a slightly larger version of the ETX-70AT, a short-focal length > refractor. You are exactly right, because I just checked. In fact it is basically the ETX-80BB (for backpacking observatory) and the manual says: ETX-80AT-BB Specifications Optical design ................................................................Achromatic Refractor Clear aperture ..........................................................80mm (2.76”) Focal length ....................................................................400mm Focal ratio (photographic speed)....................................f/4.4 It's one of those designs with a built-in barlow to shorten it. Phil Thank you very much for the replies. Below are this starters assumptions, mistakes and learning so far: I made a little spreadsheet of candidate scopes taking in the advice I got here too. The finalist shortlist so far includes: -Orion APX 127mm (real Maksutov-Cassegrain this time & manual) $350, [why do I like this one?] -Orion SkyQuest XT8 IntelliScope $480, that can be computerized for another $130. -Meade DS-2130ATS-LNT / 20133 with the computer and Auto North/level finder $399. -Meade ETX-90AT with the computer & Auto North/Level $750. All four have 35mm or DSLR adaptors for around $60 or less. *I guess here is the real question for me*: Im struggling to understand why I like the Maksutov designs so much- other than size (portability) and perhaps if astronomy doesnt quite work out, one could still put it to use for nature watch. I read similar aperture size reflective and Refractive/or/Maksutov scopes give comparable results. Therefore $ for $ you get much bigger apertures with reflectives, making them a better deal. Is this true? Why would anyone buy an ETX-90AT or what my instincts (uneducated in this case) keeps telling me is the scope I should be looking at; the Orion APX 127mm. If above is true, it comes down to: DS-2130ATS-LNT / 20133 with (Apr=130mm and EFL=1000mm) fully computerized at $399. (kind of portable) Or SkyQuest XT8 IntelliScope with (Apr=203mm and EFL=1200mm) fully computerized at $610. And if this is true and ignoring my instincts, for a real beginner like me, DS-2130ATS-LNT may be a nice modern way in its a lot of tech. and scope for the money. Or for an extra $200, I could have an almost serious scope (SUV portable) i.e. SkyQuest XT8 IntelliScope (sold out nationwide in the US until Jan 16) I think Im getting there. Certainly, learning from all of you and researching more and more. Ill stop the tiptoe by Fri. this week and jump in . Many thanks, I've only been serious for a few months after a lifetime of looking up. Of course, all the years of camping and having kids in scouts gave me a little bug for this. That said, I love love love my Orion XT8 Intelliscope. I also have a 90mm refractor. At my limited stage of experience, the refractor is better for the limited photography (translate: planets and moon) available without taking out a second on the house. The dobsonian sucks in far more light and I can see tons. I have the 50$ camera adapter you spoke of and it works fine. On the refractor, it's best (for me), because I don't get a sore arm constantly pushing the scope to keep it on target. With the refractor on the GEM mount, it's just a little turn of the RA knob. Now, I did have to learn polar alignment, and it's much more trouble to set up compared to the dobsonian. Like everything else, it's about which compromises you're willing to make. Clear skies. Richard in the western end of the Antelope Valley, California I have a friend that has the DS you mention. I wouldn't recommend it. It has dubious optics, and has spent more time being repaired than being used. The ETX-90 is high quality, though 90mm is pretty small. The Apex is good optically, but you would want the Starmax version. It's on sale for $494. I'd get an Orion dob for visual use. If you can't resist trying astrophotography, I'd suggest the Orion SkyView Pro 8 with dual drives. Nice big aperature, sturdy mount, and motor drive for photography. Note: serious astrophotgraphers have thousands invested in Losmandy mounts, apochromatic OTA's, CCD imagers, and a zillion other things. The standard advice for beginners is to forget photgraphy. I'll also note that the XT12 classic is on sale for $773. Killer scope for visual use. It is huge, so consider it's lack of portability. But, aperature rules, and it has more than 5x the aperature (area) of a 127mm. Greg > Like everything else, it's about which compromises you're willing to > make. That sums it up pretty well. And even with multiple scopes, you can look through only one at a time -- so you need to make that "compromise" each night when you set up :-) Phil > *I guess here is the real question for me*: I’m struggling to > understand why I like the Maksutov designs so much- other than size [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (uneducated in this case) keeps telling me is the scope I should be > looking at; the Orion APX 127mm. The 5" (127mm) Mak-Cass will always require polar alignment for astro use, and has no Go-To electronics. Not sure what an ETX-90AT is (so many suffixes in use now!), but the ETX-90EC or PE or LNT can be used in an Alt-Az mode and has Go-To electronics. So the 127 gives you more optics, but less convenience. That's the tradeoff. > If above is true, it comes down to: > DS-2130ATS-LNT / 20133 with (Apr=130mm and EFL=1000mm) fully [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > almost serious scope (SUV portable) – i.e. SkyQuest XT8 IntelliScope > (sold out nationwide in the US until Jan 16) The 2130 is a 4.5" reflector, likely an improvement over the refractors in the DS line. It has the #494 vs. #497 Autostar (see Weasner site). Likely the mount will not be as stable as the 127 Mak-Cass mount (an area of compromise in many entry-level scopes. The 2130 appears not to support polar/equat alignment for photography -- but you likely can get short images of brighter objects (at least) and stack them (if the mount is stable enough). Apparently the DS-2130ATS-LNT is sold only by one vendor, and I could find no reviews of it. But it sounds like you are making progress and coming up with a better choice of options! Phil It's curious that Meade lists the aperature as 80mm which is about 3.1 inches, but in the instruction manual they say that 80mm is 2.76 inches. 2.76 inches is 70.1mm. I wonder if there is a typo somewhere, especially since Meade introduced a ETX-80AT-BB which is an 3.14 inch (80mm) refractor much like the ETX-70 So, I got myself a wee telescope after all. I wanted to thank you all for caring and giving all the right advice. The more I learn, the more I think I was going to make a wasteful or an unrewarding investment. I also wanted you to know, I hate you- for making me spend so much more money and make me come home with something inches taller and a few pounds heavier than my kid! It is true; it always comes down to what you're willing to sacrifice. In my case, they were; portability, full GoTo, lunar and planetary photography only, and money. After a couple of visits to my local Orion store, I am now a proud owner of a SkyQuest XT10 Intelliscope. I'm almost embarrassed to own this thing. You see? At some point I started to consider an ETX-125 and then that got me thinking about a Celestron C8 S-GT XLT- all 54lb's of it. Sky's the limit, isn't it? At that league, XT10's promise (that's all I have so far) was a no brainer bargain. It took me a good careful 3 hrs. to assemble and collimate the beast with a lasermate. This should be a telescope of a lifetime. The reward so far is a 'fuzzy' (why? Too close?) view of some tree tops just under ¼ mile away while we're toughing out a storm tonight in the Bay. Can't wait for some clear skies. In the mean time and before real work overwhelms me again on the 2nd, I'm busy learning about the winter skies and my scope's IntelliScope. Again, thank you all and I hope me and my family get to a stage to be able to help some other Newbie out some day too. Many thanks again and very Happy New Year! PS At the cost of taking Coal to Newcastle, just FYI- I'd Tivo'ed an excellent program on the Discovery channel: 100 Greatest Discoveries "Astronomy" on Thursday. 12/29 at 12:00pm. Highly recommended. > So, I got myself a wee telescope after all. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of it. Sky's the limit, isn't it? At that league, XT10's promise > (that's all I have so far) was a no brainer bargain. Not all that wee! A very good choice, especially if you have reasonable skies from home (so you do not have to transport it 100 miles to get good use from it). You aren't in California by any chance? (weather reference!). Hmm .. "local Orion store": Are there any NOT in No. Calif.? Congratulations on an excellent choice. Much better than your original candidates, IMO. Phil |
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