Space Forum / Astronomy / April 2005

Pythagoras is said to have travelled broadly, and/or associated
with great travellers of that era.  According to Philostratus, one
of the last "pythagorean philosophers" Apollonius of Tyana
"retraced" Pythagoras' journey from Greece to India.

Emmisaries from the east were also abundant at that time
around the life of Buddha (560 - 480), so the migration of
knowledge from the east to Pythagoras cannot be ruled out.

If you respect scholarly work I suggest you seek the history
of the contention surrounding the dating of India's oldest
traditional work - the Rig Veda.

Once you have arrived a date for this writing, examine the
substance of the text and compare it to the substance of
any of the ancient texts of the west.

Pete Brown
Falls Creek
Oz
www.mountainman.com.au

With all said in the reply to follow, the ultimate irony is that the
lesson of history has still not been fully learned and (despite the
knowledge in their heads) most people are still in the Platonistic mode
and are likewise flat-earthers even when they believe otherwise,
showing subtle but ubiquitous (sp?) indications betraying their true
inclination.  More on that in the excerpt following the reply below
(where I also provide a different take on the issue with the "altitude"
question and recount Kepler's foray into science fiction writing that
preceded his research in celestial mechanics).

... because the stars showed no parallax; and no account for the
absence of measurable effects of the motion could be provided (even the
concept of the relativity of motion was not forthcoming until Galileo,
and even then Galileo was initially NOT a relativist but only became
converted to one during his period of confinement after having his
absolutist position rebuked by the Church).

Modern concepts were well within full purview of the ancients and
medievalists.  The first science fiction account of travel to the moon
was NOT from the 19th century H.G. Wells or Jules Vernes or whoever it
was.  It was from ancient Rome, in 160 AD by the Greek satirist, Lucie
of Samosata.

The Earth was measured shortly after (and because of) the rude
awakening Alexander got when he reached India and found that the
"ocean" was nowhere nearby.

There are actually 2 direct experiments that can determine the size of
the earth.  The famous one by Erastothenes (sp?) is well-known and
won't be described here.  But there is also the one that arises from
the fact that the distance R to the horizon over a clear field (or
ocean) is related to your height H over the ground by
                      R/H = D/R.
where D is the Earth's circumference.  This remains accurate for
heights H up to the stratosphere or beyond.

For two objects above the ground the same formula applies to determine
the maximum line-of-sight distance, with H being the total of the two
objects' heights over the ground.

A set of marked points on a cliff overlooking a small lake will suffice
for H; with a set of flags on a tower on the opposite shore.  Determine
what flags are visible from which marked points on the cliff and from
this find C.  For a height of 6 feet, the horizon is 3 miles off.  It
goes as the square root from there.  This implies the Earth is about
25000 miles around and about 8000 miles across.

The shadow of the Earth, seen in lunar eclipses, is a circle 3 times
larger than the moon.  Therefore, the moon is 1/3 the size of the
Earth.

The moon's diameter is in about 100/1 ratio to its distance as seen,
for instance, by extending an arm out, say, 25 inches, and finding an
apparent diameter between the fingers of 1/4 inch.

Therefore, it is about 10 times further out than the Earth's
circumference.

The position of the half moon relative to the sun is slightly off from
90 degrees.  The difference from 90 degrees is an extremely small angle
that is directly related to the ratio of the moon's distance and sun's
distance.  Even the slightest error in the determination of this angle
will completely blow apart the estimate.  Therefore, the Greeks came up
with an estimate of only a few million miles.

The actual ratio is 400:1, which also implies that the sun is about 400
times larger than the moon since they appear to have the same size in
the sky.

Neither estimate was (or would have been) given credibility by the
ancients.  Nor the one involving the stars.

The estimate of the distance to the stars is determined by their
parallax ... on the assumption the earth is moving about the sun.  No
parallax was found.  The conclusion is either (1) the earth is not
moving about the sun or (2) -- far less believable -- the stars are so
incredibly far away that no parallax can be discerned at all.

That was the ancients.  For the medievalists: there is the famous
painting from Renaissance Europe which depicts the universe of Dante's
Inferno in a curious way, which in fact closely matches reality and is
an early representation of non-Euclidean geometry.

The Dante universe is a concentric series of spheres, the outermost one
representing Empyrean (sp?), the abode of God.

In the painting, the spheres become CONVEX outward, and the outermost
one is a single point.  The painting shows Empyrean as a single point
obscured by a massive glow out of which all sorts of objects (and
beings) are emanating.

In fact, the "sky" (which means the "visible universe" which, in turn,
means the "past light cone") is a hypersphere.  All points, in all
directions, go out and also back in time, all converging onto a single
point in space and time -- the Big Bang.  The actual image of the Big
Bang is obscured by the fog of light that existed prior to the time
when outer space became transparent, but it is in a direct line of
sight from every point in the universe in every direction at every
time.

To put it a little bit differently: the Moment of Creation is the one
and only point in space and time that is in the direct line of sight of
every part of the Universe at every time.  It is also the point in the
Universe where the entropy of the universe is at a minimum (i.e. the
most ordered part of the universe = the essential attribute defining
Empyrean).

The following is excerpted from "The Future of Physics and the World",
from sci.physics and sci.astro April 2.

1.1.2. Galileo, Reconciliation and the Origin of Relativity
-----------------------------------------------------------
Despite the Vatican's advocacy of the modern sciences, with a solid
presence in the Astonomy community, its history is marred by the
shortsightedness of its intransigence in its dispute with astronomy and
the natural sciences.

But there's plenty of blame to go around, and, even today, the lesson
of the history of that time STILL has not been fully assimilated -- not
even by those who claim to be the most ardent supporters of the
Galilean stance that now underlies modern science.

Galileo was interred challenging the authority of the time.  Though his
advocacy of Copernicus was not branded a heresy, his attack of the
Church's position was treated as such.  And for this, Galileo truly was
wrong.  His wrong, which mirrored the intransigence he was mocking, was
to insist on the dichotomy of the two positions.  The very fallacy that
both sides tacitly endorsed was, itself, the false pretext of their
pseudo-debate.

It was his inability to dislodge the traditional stand (which was
largely founded on the fact that the stars show no observable parallax
that one would expect for a moving frame), and his inability to draw
the necessary and correct conclusions that made him equally the subject
of the condemnation of hindsight that sees the pettiness of the debate
of the time.

Even as modern science holds to: it is not enough to prove your side
right.  Advancement is only made by also explaining WHY and HOW the
other side is wrong -- or else, finding an accommodation that subsumes
everything.

The psychological effect of being forced, under pain of torture or
worse, to utter the words "I was wrong" is undeniable: you begin to
take seriously the notion of playing devil's advocate (an ironic use of
terms here) and thinking through the issues more clearly.  When two
people in good conscience, consistent with the facts on hand, hold to
opposite positions, then there is clearly something in between that
both have not yet taken into account that divides them.

This lesson, for instance, has not been fully assimilated by many in
the string and loop QG community.

It was only during his confinement that the steadfastness of both sides
of the debate finally began to register on Galileo.  And it was only
because of this that during this time the Earth-shaking idea finally
dawned upon him:
        Motion is relative.  ALL frames of reference are equivalent.

Thus it was that Galileo, the actual discoverer of the Principle of
Relativity finally came onto the insight.  And it is Relativity that
excuses and reconciles the conflict in the two points of view.  It is
only from this that one can proceed to investigate natural phenomena,
not only in the terrestial frame where the ground is fixed, but also
from the celestial frame, where nothing is fixed, but where the order
intrinsic in the motions of the planets suddenly becomes clearer.

Relativity is actually what unites the terrestial world with that of
outer space.  The Copernician Revolution only provided order for the
celestial domain, and was an incomplete revolution.

An ancient book can be excused for describing an event in the
terrestial frame of reference, since it was intended for an earthly
readership.  It could have equally well argued -- even back during
Galileo -- in a way acceptable to all sides that had there been anyone
on the moon to deliver the stories to the most natural mode of
description would have been to render it in the frame they resided in:
the lunar frame.  But in this frame, the Earth rotates once a day.
Indeed, all parties to the medieval debate accepted without question
that whatever lay in the sky would go about the Earth once a day.  So
ANYTHING that managed to find its way all the way up into the sky would
have to participate in this universal motion.  From its perspective,
the Earth would be rotating.

The view opens up more revealing questions that were never asked: at
which altitude does the transition to the celestial daily motion
initiate?  Is there a transition region where a part of this motion is
imbued onto matter? For instance, does the passage of storm fronts have
anything to do with the relative rotation of the Earth and sky?

The general mode of thought was easily available to all parties even at
that time.  For, despite impressions to the contrary, the notion of
travel to the moon or life on the moon or elsewhere is not a modern
idea at all. In fact, the first bona fide Science Fiction story about
travel to the moon is not from H.G. Wells from the 19th century, but
from ancient Rome, in 160 AD by the Greek satirist, Lucien of Samosata.

It was translated in the 17th century by no less than Kepler, himself,
who proceeded to write his own Science Fiction story on space travel.
Undoubtedly, it also had an impact on the development of Kepler's Laws.

Unfortunately, the lesson of history has not yet been fully
assimilated.

1.1.3. The Return of Plato versus Copernicus
--------------------------------------------
Though people in their heads think of the world as modern science does;
ALMOST NOBODY actually believes this picture -- even when they think
they do and claim to.  To this day people will still be shocked if you
point downward in the precise direction of their favorite religious
holy site -- as if "down" meant hell.  If you point down and say the
sky is that way, you still get a blank stare.  Nobody knows where they
actually are.  They still tacitly think of the world as being a
gigantic Cosmic Floor over which (for some) might sit the abode of a
really, really old man (and His angels); and under which sits the hot
lava-like abode of his former accomplice gone bad.

You literally have to stand on your head while outdoors to see things
as they actually are.  The first time doing so can be rather
disorienting: you get the impression that your feet are dangling in the
middle of an infinite void and that a giant planet is resting heavily
upon your shoulders.

A little thought reveals that the impression is not the illusion and
the "real world" real, but quite the opposite: the everyday perception
is the illusion and the world seen upside down is the reality.

But nobody stuck in an Earthlubbing civilization will ever clearly see
this.

The Platonistic view of the world, with the Earth at the center, has
still not been relinquished.  The prevailing mode of thought is still
on what to do in THIS world, as if that were all of reality.  It still
treats the prospect of exterrestial civilizations as taboo, when the
principle of modern science, which holds to the premise that nothing
over the sun or under the sun is extraordinary -- demands that the
premise be no less than the null hypothesis, and the possible absence
of other civilizations the "extraordinary fact requiring extraordinary
explanation".

The shift in viewpoint spawned by the Copernician revolution will not
be fully consummated until the world has taken the next step into
becoming a spacefaring civilization.  Until then, it will remain cooped
up in an increasingly claustrophobic world where, even now, the
hallmarks of the destructive syndrome of Cabin Fever (otherwise known
as the Rapa Nui Syndrome or Easter Island Syndrome) are have started to
take root.

Aryabhatta expounded heliocentric theory before Copernicus: Kalam

Religion & rockets, the varied interests of Kalam

By Y. Mallikarjun

President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam's new book deals with the
spiritual and philosophical facets of life that left a
deep impact on his psyche.  

[Caption] President Kalam: "The India that came into
being ... was not the India of his [Gandhiji's] dreams."

Philosophy, science, religion, music, astronomy, culture
and civilisation -- the range of President A.P.J. Abdul
Kalam's interests are revealed in his coming book,
Guiding Souls: Dialogues on the Purpose of life.

It took Mr. Kalam and his co-author and associate, Arun
K. Tiwari, nearly a year to write the book. Much of it
was written in the picturesque environs of the Mughal
Gardens in the Rashtrapathi Bhavan and during the
President's travels around the country.

The book, which is being published simultaneously in
English, Hindi, Urdu, Marathi, Gujarati, Kannada, Tamil
and Telugu, will hit the stands in July-August.

Unique style

Adopting a unique style of narration, entirely through a
conversation between Mr. Kalam and Mr. Tiwari, it deals
with the spiritual and philosophical facets of life that
left a deep impact on Mr. Kalam's psyche.

Mr. Kalam reveals that Aryabhatta's heliocentric theory
of gravitation was one of "the earliest and preceded
Copernicus by a thousand years." Aryabhatta also wrote
about eclipses and the sun being the source of moonlight,
a millennium before Copernicus and Galileo.

On Indian science, he says it blossomed during 1920-1940,
almost parallel to the political and social awakening.
"Jagdish Chandra Bose, C.V. Raman, M. Visvesvaraya,
Meghnath Saha, Srinivas Ramanujan, Subramanyan
Chandrasekhar ... so many brilliant minds enlightened
Indian nationalism."

Though he reveres all of them, he was particularly
inspired by Srinivas Ramanujan. "I shared with him a
humble beginning. My father was a boatman, his father
worked as a clerk in a cloth merchant's shop. But the
similarity ends there. While I was a run-of-the-mill
student, by age 12, Ramanujan had mastered
trigonometry... " One aspect, which touched him deeply
about Ramanujan, was that while his work reflected true
genius, his life highlighted the miseries associated with
the rural middle class and poor. Says Mr. Kalam
philosophically: "... certain energies come only when you
burn."

Mr. Kalam feels that "in India, the way we live today is
largely shaped by Gandhiji."

He says most of Gandhiji's actions were a great success
because the British did not know how to deal with an
enemy who did not use violence. Further, he says,
"Gandhiji was primarily responsible for the
transformation of the demand for independence into a
nationwide mass movement ... yet the free India that came
into being, divided and committed to a programme of
modernisation and industrialisation, was not the India of
his dreams."

M.S.' influence

Apart from his mother, Mr. Kalam says the woman who left
a deep impression on him, was M.S. Subbulakshmi. "I bathe
my soul in her music ... I wake up to a new day listening
to her rendering of the Venkatesa Suprabhatam for the
last five decades or so."

Mr. Kalam considers Guru Nanak Dev his ideal. "To me his
life is a model to follow." His deep insight into Islam
also comes out in the book when he observes that the
central aim of a good human life is transformation of
Nafs, a synonym for the devil, passion and greed, through
various psycho-spiritual stages to the purity and
submission to the will of God.

Reflecting on his inner journey, Mr. Kalam describes it
as "a journey of adventure and discovery-from Rameswaram
island to Rashtrapathi Bhavan ... a journey of truth and
authenticity; a journey of love, devotion and passion; a
journey of compassion, giving and service..."

Towards the end of the conversation, Mr. Kalam muses
philosophically: "Where I am sitting now, Lord Irwin was
sitting in 1931. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan sat on this
chair. Where was I then? Where are they now? Tomorrow
someone else will sit here. The reality is in here and
now."

More at:

http://www.hindu.com/2005/04/14/stories/2005041404201100.htm

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:

    "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
    "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
    "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.

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